talking to opponents and officials

[dvasques]

Having some problems down here defining what is or not acceptable between players before we call UNS. And what we, as officials, accept to be talked to us.

We're having a lot of issues with trash talking between players and also with the type of comments players and coaches make about officials and our jobs. I got a pretty good guideline about dissent but it is subjective and some of the newbies are having trouble being consistent with this

any help is welcome

[Rulesman]

Comments that begin with the word "you" are most suspect for one of these: 

[dvasques]

but you don't flag a coach who says "you're wrong". Of course... if he tells that to you and not to the whole stadium

[James]

Europe has a very different level of tolerance than America does. It took me quite a while to come to grips with that...
With coaches, they get to say a lot here, but usually the line is also with 'You ...' or claiming corruption of the officials.
With players - I will usually tell them to be careful what they say to others, as I might interpret it as being said to me and have to throw a flag for it - that works a lot better than you might think...
I don't see many UNS flags thrown for talking - usually it is an action that gets the flag. A real taunt or slur might do it though.

[FabioBroncos]

A few examples to extend the debate here:

• You're too weak for me
• I'll kill you the next play
• Uhhhhh another drop!? And you call yourself a wide receiver?
• what an IDIOT you are...
• Let this idiot talk, we'll answer pancaking him
• ahahahahah what a sucker you are

.....

Which of these phrases are acceptable and which aren't in your opinions fellas? Do you have more examples to provide? What things do the players say in US and in the other countries?

[RMR]

A few examples to extend the debate here:

• You're too weak for me
• I'll kill you the next play
• Uhhhhh another drop!? And you call yourself a wide receiver?
• what an IDIOT you are...
• Let this idiot talk, we'll answer pancaking him
• ahahahahah what a sucker you are

.....

Which of these phrases are acceptable and which aren't in your opinions fellas? Do you have more examples to provide? What things do the players say in US and in the other countries?

Those are kinda quaint, like from the 50s or something.

[FabioBroncos]

Indeed, I totally agree... but this is the kind of trash-talking players do here in Brazil.

This is the real purpose of this topic by dvasques. We'd like to know what is acceptable, what is not and also what players say to each other in USA and other countries.

[Wettstein]

Indeed, I totally agree... but this is the kind of trash-talking players do here in Brazil.

They trash talk in Brazil?  I thought they just killed the officials by beheading them.  Sorry, just had to say it.

[alter mann]

In the early 1980 we had some American officials here in Germany to teach us football and officiating. One of them, Mike Cochran, was the BJ in a game. After a play he threw a flag for UNS. He went to the referee and told him: "I didn't understand what he said, but I felt it was worth 15."

[Arbitrator]

 

If you really want to take a nostalgic trip through NCAA football history, get into a 1920's through 1940's NCAA Rulebook, where one will find that it was against the rules and the code of ethics for a coach or a player to even address an official, period.

Now wouldn't it be absolutely heavenly to play a game today using those very same rules? 

[FabioBroncos]

My examples were more players-to-players trash talking.

Without any really insult including bad language and stuff, I wouldn't flag a player. The problem is: the resentful players cry and protest because of everything!

We are having a tough time around here to realize understand and explain the other crews over the country what to flag and what not to flag.

And we're also curious to know what kind of trash-talking between players happen in USA and Europe... and what gets flagged or not.

[BNE-Ref]

From an Australian (or more specifically Queensland) perspective, this is what I tell our guys (more or less - this isn't a script I use, but the general tone of it).

What players say can be directed towards four groups: us, the opponents, their teammates or themselves.

If their comments are directed towards us, or towards opponents, our degree of tolerance is low.  If there is an obscenity involved, it is a flag.  If there is a personal insult involved, you can choose to ask them to repeat it (and if they do, flag them), or you can flag it straight off if severe enough or it looks like the situation could get inflamed if ignored.  If it is general boasting or trash talking, a loud reprimand or caution is an appropriate first step.

If they are talking to their teammates, our degree of tolerance is higher.  If there is an obscenity that can be heard by a member of the public, it is a flag.  Otherwise, it would be hard to justify a flag.  If they are verbally putting down an opponent, but not directly speaking to that opponent, a verbal reprimand to tell them that's enough talking should be the first step, loud enough for the opponents to hear that you're warning them.  Flag if it continues.

If they are talking to themselves (either through temporary insanity or as a result of an emotional outburst), firstly ask yourself if this is a reaction to an injury.  If so, have a very high tolerance level, even if there is an audible obscenity.  Otherwise, treat it the same as talking to their teammates.

[Rulesman]

GOOD STUFF, but the only part I would disagree with is asking them to repeat a comment. You ask them to repeat it, they do, you flag it, and then you are accused of baiting them. It's a no-win situation.

[Gtesli]

Here (in Norway) we usually respond to suspect/questionable comments with a simple "what did you say/what was that?"... Most players and coaches understand that we've heard something and elect not to repeat themselves. In most cases both offending and opposing player get that we are in fact paying attention to the game and can be let off with "come on. Get back to your huddle and play ball". But in countries where soccer is big you have to be conscious of the, for a lack of a better term, whinyness of players. Asking is not baiting.

[dvasques]

What I like to do around here is just reply "pardom?" to a comment that could be flagged. Usually they won't repeat but sometimes they do and then get the flag.

Problem here (maybe anywhere where soccer is big) is that players and coaches simply don't respect an official from the start. Tradition here in soccer games is to loudly boo officials once they step onto the field for soccer games. That mentality carries on to football but we've been fighting hard against it

[James]

As I have mentioned previously - the attitude is different here in Germany. We generally let them talk as long as it not directed at another player or official, but I had an interesting one last week.

Mid level adult game, high score for visitors. In the 3rd quarter (V already up by 25 or so) throw an interception. As he is leaving the field an American player (who should no better) starts swearing up a storm with about 8 Fs and such - directed at himself and his teammates in the team zone as he is walked to the team zone. He is VERY loud however.

Now as I said, the lines are different here, but it was enough that I jogged over as he is in the middle of this tirade and tell him to knock it off, the language is not acceptable. Next thing I here as I turn away in a VERY loud voice:

'GOSH DARNIT!'

[boydmarq]

In the early 1980 we had some American officials here in Germany to teach us football and officiating. One of them, Mike Cochran, was the BJ in a game. After a play he threw a flag for UNS. He went to the referee and told him: "I didn't understand what he said, but I felt it was worth 15."

Das ist lustig!