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Author Topic: KO Formation  (Read 12612 times)

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Offline TXMike

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KO Formation
« on: September 28, 2013, 11:10:01 PM »
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Offline dvasques

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 11:16:39 PM »
Don't think there's nothing to be done here... and I guess this guy puts himself in somewhat of a disadvantage... unless the return team breaks a long return
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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 12:21:16 AM »
In my opinion, by running away from his restraining line, he's doing exactly the opposite if what the rule is trying to stop, players having a full head of steam at the time of the kick. I've got nothing. I would mention to the coach that it needs to be corrected though.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 06:49:46 AM »
Per 2013's Rule 6-1-2-b new language this is a 5 yard illegal formation live ball foul and can be either a succeeding spot or a previous spot enforcement.

Rule 6 Kicks / SECTION 1. Free Kicks / Free Kick Formation / ARTICLE 2.b.
After the ball has been made ready for play all players on the kicking team except the kicker must be no more than five yards behind their restraining line.  A player satisfies this rule when one foot is on or beyond the line five yards behind the restraining line. If one player is more than five yards behind the restraining line and any other player kicks the ball, it is a foul.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2013, 06:52:45 AM »
What is the intent of this rule Roy?
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 07:00:05 AM »
That's pretty clear Mike based on all of the previous discussions and the original rule change presentations.  The intent of the rule is to help slow down the kicking team and prevent them getting a long running start prior to the kick.  This type of action is counter to the intent of the rule and is a clear formation foul.  IMO this one is an obvious intentional act, highly visible to everyone, and gets the flag.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 05:47:55 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline TXMike

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 07:08:56 AM »
If I told you that player did NOT go roaring downfield but was circling back because he was the safety would that change your decision to flag or not?
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Offline blindref757

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2013, 11:03:29 AM »
I would give the coach a freebie once and tell him that I didn't want to see it again.  The rule is clear and this clearly breaks the letter of the rule but not the intent.  It is on the coach to stay within the rules of the game and it is on us to enforce them.  If he wants to avoid cheap flags, he needs to fix it when we give him the chance.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2013, 05:47:29 PM »
But he is roaring down the middle of the field and is at full speed when the play is killed.  IMO this is not just a "technical" violation.  If he wants to move to the center of the field there's no reason he can't do it legally by running along the line and being in a legal position when the ball is kicked.  I'd flag this one every time.
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Offline JasonTX

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 10:41:26 PM »
Because we see what is going on in the video it is easy to see the big picture.  However in the game, we have no idea that the kick was going to end so soon.  I'm willing to bet that had the kick not ended so soon this player would have completed his turn and gained some speed to run downfield.  The question is, do we wait to see if that happens or not?  As luck would turn out, the other team will end up doing something similar but actually get a full run at it and then we'd flag that.  You can hear the argument that we didn't flag the other team but flagged his team.  A flag doesn't ruin everything on this play.  It will send the message that they aren't going to be allowed to circumvent the rules.  At some point you have a draw a line somewhere.  Where do you draw it is up to you to decide but do so in a way that you can be consistent on this rule.
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Offline Joe Stack

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 11:24:24 PM »
If you watch the end of the video, number 20 -- the player who did the loop around -- comes running in hard -- or at least, harder than the rest -- and ready to blow someone up. Just because he didn't I don't think matters. Are you going to ignore the defensive offsides on the right when the play is to the left and the defender who fouled was nowhere near the point of attack?

I'm all for applying intent and advantage/disad. I think if we can leave our flag in our pocket, let's do so. But I think this violates both the letter and spirit of the rule, and given its a safety issue, err on the side of a foul.
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Offline Welpe

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2013, 12:09:09 AM »
Quote from: JasonTX on September 29, 2013, 10:41:26 PM
Because we see what is going on in the video it is easy to see the big picture.  However in the game, we have no idea that the kick was going to end so soon.  I'm willing to bet that had the kick not ended so soon this player would have completed his turn and gained some speed to run downfield.  The question is, do we wait to see if that happens or not?  As luck would turn out, the other team will end up doing something similar but actually get a full run at it and then we'd flag that.  You can hear the argument that we didn't flag the other team but flagged his team.  A flag doesn't ruin everything on this play.  It will send the message that they aren't going to be allowed to circumvent the rules.  At some point you have a draw a line somewhere.  Where do you draw it is up to you to decide but do so in a way that you can be consistent on this rule.

I agree with this. This isn't one stationary player with his foot just off the line.

In the end it is a 5 yard penalty, not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
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Offline Magician

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2013, 01:56:36 AM »
Quote from: Welpe on September 30, 2013, 12:09:09 AM
I agree with this. This isn't one stationary player with his foot just off the line.

In the end it is a 5 yard penalty, not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

In this case it's not a big deal. I had an IFK call when the A player was stationary a half yard behind the 30 (free kick from the 35).  The ball was headed out of bounds at the 5 but for some reason the B player tried to field it and muffed it out at the 7.  Because of the bad field position they would get, even after the 5-yard tack-on, they chose to back up A 5 yards and re-kick.  They returned the next kick to the 35 yard line so it turned into a 20+ yard difference.

My flag was supported.
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Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2013, 06:42:22 AM »
 ^flag
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 07:09:51 AM by Aussie-Zebra »
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Offline Ted T

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2013, 09:17:39 AM »
The guy may be running hard, but he's running no faster than he would have been without retreating 5 yards.  I would say he's running harder than the other guys because he's trying to catch up.
There's no advantage gained here.  Tell the coach about the technicality of the rule and save yourself unnecessary aggravation.
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Offline psv

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Re: KO Formation
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2013, 04:18:45 PM »
Flag for illegal kick formation when the ball is kicked.  As others have mentioned, this isnt 6 inches of grass between the line and the player, this is a running start.  I had one two weeks ago, player looped back as the ball was being kicked.  I flagged it then, and I would flag it here.

If coach wants a safety back there, he can get there after the ball is kicked.
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