Extracurricular

[bama_stripes]

I have been doing this for 24 years and have never had a clinician say a coach should be flagged for "showing us up".

Probably because coaches aren't supposed to be on the field.  I'm very patient with coaches.  If this same action had occurred at the sideline, I doubt I would flag it, much the same as if a baseball coach throws his hat/clipboard while he's in his dugout.

But the fact that this happened in full view of everyone present makes it too hard to ignore, and sends the wrong message if such behavior isn't  penalized.

[TXMike]

Don't disagree about the need to flag.  Just about the reason for the flag.  I see it as warranted , but not because "we don't want to be showed up."  That seems to be an officiating philosophy foreign to we who only work football.

[copedaddy]

There is less of a problem with this in other high school sports because they use the NFHS rules and they are much more strict about coaching behavior. Here in Texas we have let football coaches get by with way more than coaches in any other sport. Just my two cents a a Texan with 34 years on the field.

[Joe Stack]

If we don't fix it from within

There's nothing we can do. I have filed several UIL reports on coaches over the years and heard nothing about any of them. In one report I heard back from the then-TASO ED about why I didn't do something when I clearly explained the reason why I didn't in the report. Had it started with "I disagree with your reasoning..." that would have been fine, but it said, "I don't understand why you didn't..."

That, and one other report that Bud Alexander responded on were the only 2 reports out of about a dozen or so (mostly player ejections and weather situations, but a few coaches) that I have heard anything on. Nothing from the UIL.

[blindref757]

This is what you get when you allow coaches to pick their officials.  Not flagging this coach might get this crew a big playoff game!!!

[TXMike]

I guarantee you THAT was not the reason for no flag.  The blue team has not had a BIG playoff game in decades and likely will not have one in the forseeable future.  The crew can be rightfully questioned for the lack of the flag but when it comes to why they did not, their integrity is the last thing you should question. 

[JasonTX]

There's nothing we can do. I have filed several UIL reports on coaches over the years and heard nothing about any of them. In one report I heard back from the then-TASO ED about why I didn't do something when I clearly explained the reason why I didn't in the report. Had it started with "I disagree with your reasoning..." that would have been fine, but it said, "I don't understand why you didn't..."

That, and one other report that Bud Alexander responded on were the only 2 reports out of about a dozen or so (mostly player ejections and weather situations, but a few coaches) that I have heard anything on. Nothing from the UIL.

We had some incident reports done during the scrimmages and the schools did hear from the UIL.  Or at least they received a copy of the incident report because the AD, who does not coach, he contacted the head coach and resolved the issue.  I'm pretty certain both the AD and Superintendent gets the reports and it's then up the the local ISD to resolve the issue.

[Joe Stack]

I won't dispute this, but I haven't heard about an official hearing from an AD since about 2006 when an official I worked a basketball game with got a call from an AD after a game fight. The AD was only clarifying who was ejected for fighting -- and the official told him it wasn't a player from his district's school.

I just don't have much faith that the AD -- whether from the school itself or the school district -- is going to do anything when the coach says, "oh, he just got mad at me because I asked him a question and told him I disagreed with his call." Are you going to support a co-worker when he or she tells you something wasn't as bad as reported and you weren't there?

[NorCalMike]

Just for an out of state perspective (California). If this happen at a game I was working, the coach would have received a USC for throwing the head set down on the field. Same penalty as a player throwing his helmet. The coach would have received a second USC for coming onto the field and arguing the call while we were leaving the field for halftime. Which means he would be staying in the locker room after the half.

CIF has placed an emphasis this year on side line control and coach behavior. We were told that we would not receive play off assignments if we allowed that type of behavior.

[TxBJ]

The crew embarrassed themselves and did us all a disservice. That is easily a flag every time.

[Rulesman]

The crew embarrassed themselves and did us all a disservice. That is easily a flag every time.

+1

[Etref]

One thing for sure.......

If you don't flag this type of behavior then Nothing happens to the coach. At least if you flag it and do an incident report there is a chance some additional action will be taken.

[TexDoc]

In Texas, there is no rule allowing officials to eject a coach.  You can just keep giving him USC penalties.

[NorCalMike]

In Texas, there is no rule allowing officials to eject a coach.  You can just keep giving him USC penalties.

Wow, I guess that's the difference between the NCAA and NFHS codes. Two unsportsmanlike conduct fouls gets you ejected whether its a player or a coach. Coaches have to leave the stadium if ejected. CIF  rules mean an ejected coach and player is not allowed to participate the following week either. We rarely have to give a coach a second flag to get them calm down and act civil.

[TxBJ]

That is incorrect, Doc. UIL has always said that two UNS fouls means the coach is ejected.

[TXMike]

Where did they say that?  There is no UIL exception that says it.  Not saying you did not hear it someplace just wondering where?  And to be clear, there is nothing that prohibits a coach from being ejected  after 1 unsportsmanlike conduct.  Our philosophy is that we will not DQ them but they could be if need be.  A prime example would be if a coach forcibly contacts an official, even if "only" once, he should be DQ'd.

[JasonTX]

Where did they say that?  There is no UIL exception that says it.  Not saying you did not hear it someplace just wondering where?  And to be clear, there is nothing that prohibits a coach from being ejected  after 1 unsportsmanlike conduct.  Our philosophy is that we will not DQ them but they could be if need be.  A prime example would be if a coach forcibly contacts an official, even if "only" once, he should be DQ'd.

I've heard the same thing but it's been a couple years ago.  If it wasn't yesterday, I couldn't tell you where I heard it.  The message was that the UIL would support an ejection of a coach if we felt he needed to be ejected.

[110]

I don't understand why this took so long to sort out. 60 seconds, maybe 90, make the calls, be done with it.

a) figure out who is in the showers, pronto.
b) figure out who has the PFs
c) figure out who has the USCs
Announce the above, get on with the game.

[clearwall]

Really? I think this video shows how only 5 guys did a great job of handling that tough situation. outside the one player acting like a Manor Road executive, they pretty much kept everthing under control, sorted it out, and by and large got it right. To me, it looked like Mr. L saw what the coach did and for whatever reason didnt flag it. I will say, as soon as I saw the headset thrown I was thinking like most everyone else here...that needs to be a flag. Still, good job overall in this clip

[copedaddy]

So what would have happened to a coach acting like this in any other sport in Texas?
How long will football coaches be the sacred cows of the sports world and allowed to wonder and do what they please? As officials we have no one to blame for this but ourselves. Our fear of being scratched or not selected to do big games is a very big part in how we act among coaches. Until UIL steps in and assigns high level playoff games like they do in every other sport, this crap will not change.

[DallasLJ]

So what would have happened to a coach acting like this in any other sport in Texas?
How long will football coaches be the sacred cows of the sports world and allowed to wonder and do what they please? As officials we have no one to blame for this but ourselves. Our fear of being scratched or not selected to do big games is a very big part in how we act among coaches. Until UIL steps in and assigns high level playoff games like they do in every other sport, this crap will not change.

  I don't want the UIL anywhere near playoff assignments -- now you are talking about all kinds of favortism and other issues.  As it is now, coaches -- through their network -- have a pretty good idea of who can call a game.  I do not have a problem with the coaches getting who they want (and no - I have not worked even a semi-final game).  When you are talking about the "high level" games -- I assume you mean later rounds -- and the coaches are already having to request officials outside of their regular chapters.

[Cowman52]

In Texas, there is no rule allowing officials to eject a coach.  You can just keep giving him USC penalties.

Ask the Granado coach, he's is Austin tomorrow for no rule allowing a coach to be ejected.

I'm sure he will get a pass 

[TxSkyBolt]

Just got the email from TASO Football association Ken Roan highlighting the video and in no uncertain terms, telling us actions like this must be penalized, every time. He pointed out that it could have been any member of the officiating crew who witnessed the UNS of the coach, not just the R.

[Cowman52]

 Just thinking a little,  how many times a week does this happen out of sight of a camera and it just goes away?  And the coach swears up and down he would never do anything like that?

[BankerRef]

It is a problem that a flag was not thrown on this behavior.  However, regardless of whether a flag was thrown or not, this behavior will continue until the schools themselves decide it is unacceptable and punish the offenders.  A meaningless 15 yards at the end of a half isn't a big enough stick.