Fake Punt

[HLTN]

I am 99.9% sure the following is legal, but would like some clarification. 
4th down.  Offense stays on the field until RFP.  At that point, they make several substitutions.
One player, pretending to be a replaced player, moves toward the sideline with the other replaced players, but stops short of the sideline.  At this point, he has met the criteria of being within the numbers at the RFP.  If he's uncovered, they throw a pass to him.  It went for a TD Friday night.  The opposing coach was OK with it, and realized his guys had been tricked. 

[GeorgiaBlue]

Illegal

9.6.4.d - It is illegal participation: To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

[SCHSref]

I am 99.9% sure the following is legal, but would like some clarification. 
4th down.  Offense stays on the field until RFP.  At that point, they make several substitutions.
One player, pretending to be a replaced player, moves toward the sideline with the other replaced players, but stops short of the sideline.  At this point, he has met the criteria of being within the numbers at the RFP.  If he's uncovered, they throw a pass to him.  It went for a TD Friday night.  The opposing coach was OK with it, and realized his guys had been tricked.

Ga Tech used that play against Clemson a few years ago.  They sent on a late substitution and Clemson never accounted for them

[HLinNC]

Incorrect.
IP- 15 yards.

[maven]

Illegal

9.6.4.d - It is illegal participation: To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

GeorgiaBlue: thanks for posting the relevant rule.

The smallest of corrections: we use dashes for rules and dots for cases.

Rule: 9-6-4d

Case play: 9.6.4D

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Years ago, the rule read: "It is illegal participation: To use a replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant..."

The some enterprising coach ran the exact play you cited where the offender was legally a "player." The next year, the rule was revised to read as it does today: "It is illegal participation: To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant..."

[NJOfficial]

So its an IP because the player made it look like he was going off the field but stayed on?  If he was only player who went towards sideline and lined up legally it would not be an IP?

[HLinNC]

Well obviously if he was the ONLY player lining up, then yes.  If he does it amongst subbing players then he begins to engage in questionable activity.

(I am using player in the generic sense here.)

[AlUpstateNY]

Well obviously if he was the ONLY player lining up, then yes.  If he does it amongst subbing players then he begins to engage in questionable activity.

A basic understanding and reality some coaches choose to neglect considering, often to their regret, is that the judgment, as to what is, or may not be considered, "questionable activity" is reserved EXCLUSIVELY for the game officials.  Designing plays, or allowing behavior, really close to a line you have absolutely no control over setting, can produce very disappointing surprises.

[Ralph Damren]

Often these type plays can be nipped in pre-game by asking : "Coach, do you have any unusual or trick plays that we need to be ready for?" If he gave us this play, we coyld inform him that it was in violation of 9-6-4d and would be flagged. If he didn't inform you and got flagged when he tried it, a response could be : "Coach if you told us about this in pre-game, we would have explained why it was illegal back then." In my opinion, it's better to expain to a coach why IT WOULD be illegal, then why IT WAS illegal.

[DaBigStiller]

Great answer.  We asked this question in pre-game and was told by the varsity coach they do not run trick plays.  He was unaware that I did a game in which he used a trick play with his freshman field goal team.  I alerted our crew of this and sure enough coach used the trick play after scoring a TD.

[J12]

What would you rule (lets use Federation Rules) on a play like this.

Team A runs a play with only 10 men on the field. Then before the next play, a "sub" enters the game, and goes into the huddle. Immediately, another player exits the huddle and heads slowly toward the sidelines (in what would constitute LEGAL motion). While this is going on and just before the player reaches the sidelines, the rest of the team lines up and properly snaps the ball. The player "leaving" then bolts downfield at the snap and recieves a forward pass.

11 men on the field all having come out of the huddle, legal formation, one man legally in motion.

[Rulesman]

What would you rule (lets use Federation Rules) on a play like this.

Team A runs a play with only 10 men on the field. Then before the next play, a "sub" enters the game, and goes into the huddle. Immediately, another player exits the huddle and heads slowly toward the sidelines (in what would constitute LEGAL motion). While this is going on and just before the player reaches the sidelines, the rest of the team lines up and properly snaps the ball. The player "leaving" then bolts downfield at the snap and recieves a forward pass.

11 men on the field all having come out of the huddle, legal formation, one man legally in motion.

No matter how you spin it, using a substitution, or pretended substitution, for the purpose of deceiving the opponent is a foul. Rule 9-6-4d.

[Atlanta Blue]

What would you rule (lets use Federation Rules) on a play like this.

Team A runs a play with only 10 men on the field. Then before the next play, a "sub" enters the game, and goes into the huddle. Immediately, another player exits the huddle and heads slowly toward the sidelines (in what would constitute LEGAL motion). While this is going on and just before the player reaches the sidelines, the rest of the team lines up and properly snaps the ball. The player "leaving" then bolts downfield at the snap and recieves a forward pass.

11 men on the field all having come out of the huddle, legal formation, one man legally in motion.

It can't be legal motion,  at some point, all11 players must be set.  If one leaves the huddle early and starts toward the sideline, then all 11 weren't set at any point.

So you either have Illegal Motion, or Illegally using substitution to deceive. Either way, it's coming back.

[HLinNC]

Actually it is Illegal Shift.

[Rulesman]

It can't be legal motion,  at some point, all11 players must be set.  If one leaves the huddle early and starts toward the sideline, then all 11 weren't set at any point.

So you either have Illegal Motion, or Illegally using substitution to deceive. Either way, it's coming back.

+1

[JKinGA29]

It's important to remember the wording of the rule: "...in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick."  I know in most cases if the play is run as intended, it will be right before the snap.  But let's say the "substitution" in question occurs several seconds before the snap, giving the defense time to recognize that the player has stayed on the field...do we hold our flag?

Obviously if they cover him it's probably a moot point but if in our judgment the defense had time to notice the guy but just didn't (for me it would probably have to be something like 4-5 seconds), then I'm probably not going to call anything, provided the rest of the formation, shifts, motion, etc. is legal.

[Curious]

It's important to remember the wording of the rule: "...in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick."  I know in most cases if the play is run as intended, it will be right before the snap.  But let's say the "substitution" in question occurs several seconds before the snap, giving the defense time to recognize that the player has stayed on the field...do we hold our flag?

Yes; I'd hold my flag since, in this instance, they didn't actually deceive their opponent.  However, I would let the coach know that you saw what would have been considered illegal had the defense not picked up the receiver.  Had that "hide-out" never have been inside the 9-yd mark, (which was NOT part of the OP), and the defense did pick him up, I'd have a similar discussion with the coach.

Obviously if they cover him it's probably a moot point but if in our judgment the defense had time to notice the guy but just didn't (for me it would probably have to be something like 4-5 seconds), then I'm probably not going to call anything, provided the rest of the formation, shifts, motion, etc. is legal.

Hard to cover him if he's the outside guy; but if he WAS, and the defense recognized he was ineligible, I would hold my flag.  Now, if the defense used a player unnecessarily to cover this ineligible, you'd have a decision to make...

[AlUpstateNY]

It's important to remember the wording of the rule: "...in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick."  I know in most cases if the play is run as intended, it will be right before the snap.  But let's say the "substitution" in question occurs several seconds before the snap, giving the defense time to recognize that the player has stayed on the field...do we hold our flag?

If you want to open Pandora's Box and get into discussions about exactly when "in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents" specifically becomes a foul, and when it might not, that's entirely up to you.  Recognizing that there is absolutely no limit as to how finely that particular gnat's eyelash can be shaved, I'm sticking with ALWAYS.

Some variation, new twist or notion, of this INTENT bubbles out of the mud periodically, and if we ever want to sink it permanantly, it needs to be rigidly and consistently enforced to the point EVERYONE gives up looking for some tiny spark that might make it legal.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I'm with AlUpstateNY on this one. Don't get into the trap of trying to parse the words of the rule, but rather understand the intent. The rule was written to ensure that the defense has a every opportunity to understand who's in the game and where they're lined up. The intent is to prevent 'hideout' plays. Rule with that philosophy in mind.