Does A get a new series?

[Legacy Zebra]

I worked at a youth league today that uses modified NCAA rules. Here's the play: 1st and 10 from the A40. A23 takes a handoff and scores a touchdown. During the run, there's a UNR against A50 at the B38. The foul was obviously during the run, not a dead ball foul. We marked off 15 yards from the spot of the foul which puts us at the A47. The question becomes this: Is it 1st and 3 replaying the down, or does A get a new series 1st and 10? I said that because A was left behind the line to gain after penalty enforcement it is still the same series, therefore 1st and 3. The white hat says that, because the foul occurred beyond the line to gain and after the runner reached the line to gain, A gets a new series 1st and 10 at the A47. So who is buying the drinks next week?

[Magician]

If it was a dead ball foul and A had achieved the line to gain they would get a new series even if enforcement kept them behind the previous LTG.  This was a live ball foul so that is not the case.  You are correct.  1st and 3.

[Joe Stack]

because the foul occurred beyond the line to gain and after the runner reached the line to gain

Where did he get this idea? You need to ask him.

[Kalle]

Where did he get this idea? You need to ask him.

This is somehow a difficult concept. I've seen experienced white hats goof on this.

[dvasques]

I've had that trouble myself but I think I finally get it after a few questions asked around

[RunRickyRun]

This is somehow a difficult concept. I've seen experienced white hats goof on this.

The way I try and explain this to coaches & officials is as:

Live ball foul - Evaluate LTG after enforcement (as if penalty were part of down).

Dead ball foul - Evaluate prior to enforcement (down ended prior to enforcement).

This is an especially effective explanation when you have a dead ball foul after a 4th down.  It may not prevent a coach from being angry but it may keep him from scratching your crew.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Live ball foul - Evaluate LTG after enforcement (as if penalty were part of down).

We award a new series when the succeeding spot is beyond the LTG.  As noted, the key with a live ball penalty enforcement is that the succeeding spot is not determined until after the penalty has been completed.  If after the penalty is completed the succeeding spot is behind the LTG then we don't award a new series.

[Roscoe]

After mark off a live ball foul, if you are behind the line to gain, no first down is awarded.