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Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Illegal formation ?
« on: January 09, 2014, 01:21:49 AM »
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 04:27:00 AM »
no
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 06:37:40 AM »
Remember that the QB is in the backfield by rule so the hidden player is behind all linemen, so he's legally in the backfield.

These are the trick plays I love.
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Offline Wingmanbp

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 07:41:48 AM »
Fairfield ran that exact play here in the Texas  3A div II state championship. Worked for a 30 yard TD
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Offline Sonofanump

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 08:55:54 AM »
I'd perfer the WR put in his mouthpiece and wait a half second before going in motion, but I would not flag it.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 01:44:35 PM »
So the WR (a back?) at the top of the screen is actually further behind the NZ than the hideout player (also a back?).  If we are considering that the hideout is actually in the backfield then the WR must also be in the backfield.  That adds up to 5 team A players in the backfield.  How does that work?  Doesn't the guidance that we're all given clearly say that in trick plays make sure that formation rules are complied with 100%?
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 01:52:27 PM »
Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on January 09, 2014, 01:44:35 PM
So the WR (a back?) at the top of the screen is actually further behind the NZ than the hideout player (also a back?).  If we are considering that the hideout is actually in the backfield then the WR must also be in the backfield.  That adds up to 5 team A players in the backfield.  How does that work?  Doesn't the guidance that we're all given clearly say that in trick plays make sure that formation rules are complied with 100%?

Ah, right, missed that (the H didn't, he's marking the WR as off the line - too bad he didn't throw the flag).
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 01:54:24 PM by Kalle »
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Offline Wingmanbp

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 02:52:35 PM »
I believe theHL is punching off the back in motion. The end is within a yard of the ball so he is on the line
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 06:07:02 AM »
Quote from: Wingmanbp on January 09, 2014, 02:52:35 PM
I believe theHL is punching off the back in motion. The end is within a yard of the ball so he is on the line

I don't think so, the man in motion is way off the line and not in question and in any case the WR is further back off the line than the hideout.  We can't rationalize both that a player who is within a yard of the ball is "OK" and that the hideout who is closer to the line is in the backfield to make the formation OK in our mind.

If the hideout is "in the backfield" then the WR has to be as well.  IMHO we've got to have a flag on this one.  A trick play must be 100% by the book - no leeway.   ^flag
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Offline fencewire

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 08:23:34 AM »
The WR communicated with the H that he was on the line and the H OK'ed his position, you can see at the start of the clip that the H is tapping his leg, he wouldn't be doing that if the WR hadn't asked for a spot.  I like to give the WR a visual confirmation that he is in an OK position.  Never flag a player for being in a spot that you put him.

It is legal. 

Sometimes we try too hard to make things illegal, instead of trying to make things legal.  Folks didn't come to watch the R's work the mic. 
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Offline Wingmanbp

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 09:17:23 AM »
Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on January 10, 2014, 06:07:02 AM
I don't think so, the man in motion is way off the line and not in question and in any case the WR is further back off the line than the hideout.  We can't rationalize both that a player who is within a yard of the ball is "OK" and that the hideout who is closer to the line is in the backfield to make the formation OK in our mind.

If the hideout is "in the backfield" then the WR has to be as well.  IMHO we've got to have a flag on this one.  A trick play must be 100% by the book - no leeway.   ^flag
The man in motion was set up off the line outside the receiver or at least he had to be to make it a legal shift. He goes in motion as the h is marking him off the line. And where does it say that all lineman half to be the exact distance from the LOS. The hidden back is in no position different than a slot back would be. He is clearly off the line because he is behind the lineman. That's obvious The qb is the only one in nomans land which is legal.
Legal Play all around
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busman

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2014, 09:18:03 AM »
Nothing about the rules, but being from Arkansas we caught the announcer screw-up. ASU's starting QB ran two series and sat out the rest of the game with a knee injury from the previous game.  The announcer talks about "Freddi Knighten", the backup qb who played the rest of the game on this play. (I work with his mother.) On this one play, the original starter actually came back in for his only other action of the night.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2014, 01:00:02 PM »
Announcers screw up?  LOL
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2014, 05:54:19 PM »
Quote from: Wingmanbp on January 10, 2014, 09:17:23 AM
The hidden back is in no position different than a slot back would be. He is clearly off the line because he is behind the lineman. That's obvious The qb is the only one in nomans land which is legal.

This formation IMHO has multiple problems and as I have stated I don't believe that it meets the requirement that trick plays that require pre-snap formation gerrymandering be 100% in compliance with the letter of the rule.  With 11 players on the field we need no more that 4 in the backfield with 7 on the line.  I don't have that - not even close.   ^flag

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« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 06:19:57 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline golfingref

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Re: Illegal formation ?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2014, 07:14:18 PM »
In the still shot photo, I see the closest end on the line, #4 and the QB#5 off, the wide out at the top of the shot off, and the  motion man off. There is a back on the video 8 yards in the backfield. That is 5 off the line. That is an illegal formation.
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