Trying to build a point

[dvasques]

I'm sorry I don't have the power to tell people down here that things are like they are because it's the best way and that's that...

So I'm having a hard time convincing people to accept changing the play clock form the Umpire to the Back Judge.

At first, the reaction is "this will not work" or "the BJ is too far back to be seen signalizing the last 10/5 secs" or "the teams won't like it"
And I'm having a hard time buiding the argument to make the change

I try to point that the U has too many responsibilities pre-snap to have to check a watch every 5 secs and signalize to the offense... but I have a hard time pointing those responsibilities... and when I stutter, I find out we here in Brasil have no clue as to what are the U responsibilities pre-snap

anybody care to help out?

PS: game clock with the R does not feel right to me (never has), but I also can't convince people that a sideline official should have the clock since "it's going to be hard for the opposite sideline team to know the time"... but that is a problem that can be changed latter on...

[JasonTX]

I have worked every position on the field and in my experience that last person on the field that you want to be in charge of the play clock is the umpire.  The umpire needs to be focused on the legality of the snap.  If he is looking at the play clock and that snapper false starts how will the umpire see that if he isn't focused on it.  The back judge has very little to watch pre-snap.  He counts the defense and identifies his keys.  Keeping the play clock on his watch is simple.  At 10 seconds he puts his arm in the air and then at 5 seconds he moves his are like a basketball official keeping a count.  The offense has no problem seeing that. 

[James]

The U is also going to have to hold off the snap on substitutions, so will not always be in a safe position just before the snap happens. For him to be rushing back to position and having to check his watch...
If it is raining I am also doing my best to keep the ball dry until the last second.
Also, at the snap, as Jason pointed out my concentration shouldn't be on my watch.

[bossman72]

None of the front 4 should have clock responsibilities.  Too much to worry about.  I still don't know why the NFL makes the LJ do the clock instead of the SJ or FJ...

[Sonofanump]

Is there not a five man manual that you can show them that is what is done in the states where this is the main sport?

[dvasques]

7 men here
and the argument "that's how it's done in the US where they invented the sport" doesn't mean much for a buch of people down here...

I have heard from one of the officials that "if they do it that way, then they should learn from us!"

[bossman72]

Just give them a scenario : What if there is a flinch by the interiors or a double clutch of the snap while the umpire glances at his watch?

[TXMike]

I am assuming there are no visible play clocks there DV?  Show them any televised college or NFL game and show them where the visible play clock is.  If the offense can see it that far away then surely they can see it when the B is signaling.  What is the argument in favor of having the U do it?  Just that he is closer to the offense?  Like everyone here has said, the U has plenty he should be doing.  As you have indicated, it is obvious the guys there are not doing those things so maybe that needs to be part of the equation.

[dvasques]

I fought it and I won!!! (kinda)
BJ will handle the play clock this year (as an experiment). And if it works (and it will!) this will be definitely

other argument againts taking it to eht BJ was that BJ was usualy the least experienced (and in 99% of the cases, the one who didn't know nothing about the rules). But I think this has changed already

[Rulesman]

Hard to believe you are putting your least experienced official at back judge.

[dvasques]

we are... first timers usualy go as BJ
I hate it...

[Diablo]

Hard to believe you are putting your least experienced official at back judge.

AGREE !

DV:  What's y'all's reasoning putting your least experienced guy at back judge?

I've done L, R & B at both the high school and collegiate level.  In the order of difficulty  L is the least demanding, followed by R and B is the hardest.  Furthermore, the differences are amplified in a 5-man crew.

[yevbs]

here in Brazil, guys, the shining positions are R, U and LM. In this order.

In old times (and we are changing this slowly - daniel vasquez and I) prestige of position was everything. So the "old" officials in Brazil had to control the clock because the least experienced officials were pushed to the deep positions (SJ, FJ and BJ). They had the "power" to control time, and they couldn't rely in those "dumb" newcomers. Long story, but I can illustrate with a shorter one.

In a game, instead of being the R, I was the BJ, so a pal could be the R as the league owner wanted. I moved to BJ, and the supracited league owner (yes, "the" man) asked me: "why didn't you go as Umpire? Are you afraid of it? Why are you taking that lousy position?"

[Magician]

AGREE !

DV:  What's y'all's reasoning putting your least experienced guy at back judge?

I've done L, R & B at both the high school and collegiate level.  In the order of difficulty  L is the least demanding, followed by R and B is the hardest.  Furthermore, the differences are amplified in a 5-man crew.

You might want to look at your mechanics.  The wings should have the most responsibility both pre-snap and during the play if you are doing it right.  R and B have the least responsibility on most plays, but when they do it is significant.  U is somewhere in the middle with a lot of things between plays but keys are simple guard-center-guard.

[James]

We officiate with 5, 6 or 7 man mechanics depending on what level and how many games there are on that weekend (more games means spread thinner).
Our experienced officials on a crew are almost always the R, LM, BJ, to control the pace of the game. Newer officials Will get slotted around depending on their perceived abilities (some are more comfortable deep, others - usually ex or current players like U and L).
I started off as LJ and U and definitely prefer working the LOS.

I don't think it is particularly good to set the position of the new guys. Depending on the level of play, give someone a good U and put him as R. Put him on the clock as BJ with someone doing a back-up (or start them on a back-up and have them compare times after every series)...

[Dommer1]

If you disregard the higher risk of injury, U is absolutely the "best" place to put a new official. The area of responsibility is small, bang-bang calls are few, no coaches behind your back to welcome you to officiating, not a huge variety of fouls to look for, a R who can talk to you frequently during the game...

That being said, there is no good place to "hide" an official, but there is one place that is better.