Spring game thoughts on the new 40/25

[Joe Stack]

Had our spring game last thursday. I think the 40/25 transition for most teams, particularly those that run a no huddle and/or do a look back should be fairly smooth. The team I did had no normal play problems with the 40 and only once on special teams did they get close.

However, one issue that did come up was timing. The field had no visible play clock. This is the case for at least some of all of our varsity games, not to mention subvarsity. In the past the BJ has been responsible for timing and the use of signals. He did this with a watch or timer. Now he would have to start the clock when he might be doing other things and keep track of both clocks.

Should the responsibility for the 40 shift to the LJ? Keep in mind we always have a LJ, even in 3 man but don't always have a BJ in subvarsity.

[Etref]

Just my thought, TASO may have a different view.......

But if we do not have a visible play clock, I am running a 25 all night. And it is sub varsity the play clock is getting turned off!

[Legacy Zebra]

But if we do not have a visible play clock, I am running a 25 all night.

Maybe I'm the minority on this one, but to me that's not ok. On subvarsity, whatever, nobody really keeps a play clock anyway. But varsity games are a different story. It's going to look really bad when your crew runs a 25 all night because you don't want to mess with keeping a 40 on the field, but the next week's crew comes in and does it the right way just fine. We owe it to the teams to apply the rules to the best of our ability. Sometimes that takes a little extra effort.

[Joe Stack]

I am running a 25 all night

You're going to get your butt in some serious trouble doing that, and you're not going to do that in a game I'm working with you.

If I were you, I'd delete that comment with a "on second thought, bad idea."

[TXMike]

Just my thought, TASO may have a different view.......

But if we do not have a visible play clock, I am running a 25 all night. And it is sub varsity the play clock is getting turned off!

        I am sure that your comment is just a knee jerk reaction.  Don't make this out to be something that is so complex we can't do it.  Truth be told...the reason the implementation was delayed was because some that we could NOT handle it.  Comments like this give support to that mistaken thinking.  If the back judge does not want to buy a Ready Ref timer , then default the timer on the watch to 40 seconds.  Any situation that calls for a 25 second clock will have enough of a delay in the action that you can run the 40 seconds down to 25 and stop it there.  Then start it on the ready.  It is not that difficult and is something we should be able to handle, visible play clock or not.

[TXMike]

Had our spring game last thursday. I think the 40/25 transition for most teams, particularly those that run a no huddle and/or do a look back should be fairly smooth. The team I did had no normal play problems with the 40 and only once on special teams did they get close.

However, one issue that did come up was timing. The field had no visible play clock. This is the case for at least some of all of our varsity games, not to mention subvarsity. In the past the BJ has been responsible for timing and the use of signals. He did this with a watch or timer. Now he would have to start the clock when he might be doing other things and keep track of both clocks.

Should the responsibility for the 40 shift to the LJ? Keep in mind we always have a LJ, even in 3 man but don't always have a BJ in subvarsity.

The B has always been responsible for  both clocks and they have been doing this for decades on fields with no visible play clocks.  How does this slight change make it such that now he can no longer handle both? 

[copedaddy]

As a BJ, I don't see any problems with keeping it. Even if the BJ is involved in something at the end of the play the only thing that happens is the offense gets a few extra seconds before he gets it running. Without a play clock who would really know?
My concern is with clock operators staying "in" the game the running the clock right.

[rickref]

As a BJ, I don't see any problems with keeping it. Even if the BJ is involved in something at the end of the play the only thing that happens is the offense gets a few extra seconds before he gets it running. Without a play clock who would really know?
My concern is with clock operators staying "in" the game the running the clock right.

Agree. It is going to be important that the clock operators actually come see us before every game and go over this. In a perfect world I would guess they all get to practice or understand the changes before hand but I do not see that at every site. 

[Etref]

        I am sure that your comment is just a knee jerk reaction.  Don't make this out to be something that is so complex we can't do it.  Truth be told...the reason the implementation was delayed was because some that we could NOT handle it.  Comments like this give support to that mistaken thinking.  If the back judge does not want to buy a Ready Ref timer , then default the timer on the watch to 40 seconds.  Any situation that calls for a 25 second clock will have enough of a delay in the action that you can run the 40 seconds down to 25 and stop it there.  Then start it on the ready.  It is not that difficult and is something we should be able to handle, visible play clock or not.

Maybe with a 5 man crew you can. But a three man crew as he was suggesting, I ain't.

[TexDoc]

Many of the country schools will not be ready for this.  In fact, I bet more of those small schools are not ready than are ready.  Also, when the stadium uses their own play clock operator, I bet there will be many problems, throughout the season.  They will actually have to pay attention now.

What I do know is that this should speed up the game.  As soon as that ball is on the ground, I'm winding the clock.  I can see it helping shorten the games a bit with certain types of offenses.  In blowouts, it may never stop.

For sub varsity, I wouldn't be real strict about this rule.  It can also help the games go faster.

[Etref]

On a related note, I ran into one of the local school coaches recently and asked him if they were ready for 25/40 clock.  He said " yep, spent all spring practicing to snap on the whistle".


I said "uggghhh, you might want to rethink that" and told him there may only be one whistle, that at the start of the series.

[TexDoc]

On a related note, I ran into one of the local school coaches recently and asked him if they were ready for 25/40 clock.  He said " yep, spent all spring practicing to snap on the whistle".


I said "uggghhh, you might want to rethink that" and told him there may only be one whistle, that at the start of the series.

Mass confusion will reign.  Coaches don't like change, especially one this drastic.  Anyone think this rule changes during the season, to revert to the old 25 sec clock?

[Etref]

I think it is here to stay, but this will be a tough year, at least the first part of it. Getting clock operators, ball boys and chain crews in line.

[TexDoc]

Any of those three don't do well, it could be a very long night.

[Wingmanbp]

One thing I noticed with the scrimmages is that many crews are still stopping the clocks on first down. That really makes it confusing when you give the clock operators the list of things that stop the clock and then your shutting it down for a first down lol
I know its a hard habit to break but it can be down. I figured it out so can you. 

[TXMike]

Maybe with a 5 man crew you can. But a three man crew as he was suggesting, I ain't.

If you are worried about a play clock in a 3 man crew (a subvarsity game)...well.....I better shut up.

[TXMike]

Mass confusion will reign.  Coaches don't like change, especially one this drastic.  Anyone think this rule changes during the season, to revert to the old 25 sec clock?

I have a steak dinner that says it will not be changed mid-season or after the season. 

[TXMike]

One thing I noticed with the scrimmages is that many crews are still stopping the clocks on first down. That really makes it confusing when you give the clock operators the list of things that stop the clock and then your shutting it down for a first down lol
I know its a hard habit to break but it can be down. I figured it out so can you. 

Uhhhh....why wouldn't you stop the clock for a 1st down?

[Legacy Zebra]

Uh, the clock still stops on a first down. The play clock starts at 40 as soon as the previous play is over, but the game clock stops while the ball is being set and then you wind the game clock with no whistle once it is set.

[Wingmanbp]

Thats not what they told us

[TXMike]

Who be they?

[Cowman52]

And wonder why so many picked this year to hang it up. 
UIL can't back down after all the hoopla, they have to save face.  It willmbe used as a lever to go to 7 man crews and still they wonder why games aren't covered.

[TXMike]

If someone retired this year because they were afraid of learning something this simple then perhaps it was already past time for them to have retired

[Cowman52]

There is the rumor out that there will be a "clock certification class".  And that the officials will meet with the clock operator before games, something that probably has been a little lax in the past. 
 Now let us fast forward to mid sept and the refs that needed to retire turn it over to the 4th year wonder kid who knows all.  He proceeds to school the retired principal running the clock for the past40 years  that that's not the way it's done.  You tie that, a 3 man crew, a short fused pair of coaches, and there ain't words for what has be stirred up.
 The people pushing this keeps saying it's simple.  Yes for most we study, and work at it. But in the same light the explanation that colleges do it ain't gonna fly, this ain't college!  The same ones haven't been within 20 miles of a 3 man crew, in BF Egypt on a Friday night with no ball boy and no chain crew over 12 years old. 
If you want it to work, think a little farther than your own circle of experience,  there will be problems and the attitude it's my fault for not trying harder ain't anywhere near the top.

[TXMike]

There is the rumor out that there will be a "clock certification class".  And that the officials will meet with the clock operator before games, something that probably has been a little lax in the past. 
 Now let us fast forward to mid sept and the refs that needed to retire turn it over to the 4th year wonder kid who knows all.  He proceeds to school the retired principal running the clock for the past40 years  that that's not the way it's done.  You tie that, a 3 man crew, a short fused pair of coaches, and there ain't words for what has be stirred up.
 The people pushing this keeps saying it's simple.  Yes for most we study, and work at it. But in the same light the explanation that colleges do it ain't gonna fly, this ain't college!  The same ones haven't been within 20 miles of a 3 man crew, in BF Egypt on a Friday night with no ball boy and no chain crew over 12 years old. 
If you want it to work, think a little farther than your own circle of experience,  there will be problems and the attitude it's my fault for not trying harder ain't anywhere near the top.

#1 - This continued referring back to a "3 man crew" is not really part of the issue.  That is a subvarsity scenario, not a varsity scenario, and as has been said, the play clock is the least of your worries at that level.   I have worked in BF Egypt and even there, for varsity games, we had adults on chains.  If the schools where you are can't even do that then you have more problems than a play clock. 

#2 - We are not doing it because "they do it in college".  The reasons for doing it in college also exist at the HS level, (a) R's are incapable of consistent 25 second clock starting periods and (b) the game is becoming more offensive and explosive and the 40 second play clock allows that to happen.  Go back and find out why there was ever a UIL exception to the 40 second play clock in the first place.  It was not because they did not think it would be good for the game.

There is a "clock certification class" for clock operators. I believe it is being released to them starting this week.  It will not be a required training or certification but it will be available for any school district, free of charge, via an easy-to-use online  interface.