Player Numbers

[Sumstine]

Can anyone verify this?

NFHS Officials Manual one of the little gray bars on Page 17 under "Use of the Microphone" heading says "may be announced" as in "The number of the player who committed the foul may be announced."

[Rulesman]

That is correct.

[FBUmp]

Interesting. Previously, that was a big no-no.

[Rulesman]

The manual says PERMITTED, not REQUIRED. The calling official should be getting the number on every foul. If you are going to announce it, just be sure you announce the right number.

[bossman72]

The manual says PERMITTED, not REQUIRED.

Just as long as it doesn't say PROHIBITED like it used to. 

Here are my feelings on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_xjBAd5G84

[riffraft]

In Ohio, their manual says "numbers WILL be announced"  that started in 2012

Just moved to Arizona so I am not sure about here, but I would guess we don't announce numbers.

[Ralph Damren]

The general feeling was that coaches always want to know who the gulity party was and if you're using a mic that would be a good way of convaying it. The concern that would embrass the player was erased by the fact that basketball announces the player that fouled and often his number is posted upon the scoreboard for the frenzed masses. One of the "four Ws" of reporting a foul...WHO, what,when & where makes it important to identify the guilty party.

[VALJ]

As long as you don't announce a penalty for "giving him the business"...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xag52o_ben-dreith-best-referee-announcemen_sport

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D8aAC4jrPM&feature=kp

[NorCalMike]

We need a definition in Rule 2 for "Giving him the business".

[FLAHL]

In Florida, we are not allowed to announce the number or position of a player who commits a foul.

Wireless Microphone: Use of a “wireless microphone” by the referee is permitted as follows: (a) The head coach of both teams must agree to the referee’s use of the system prior to the start of the game; (b) Only the type foul and the distance penalty may be announced by the referee; (c) A player’s name, position or number may never be announced; and (d) The information is not announced until after the captain has made his decision to accept or decline the penalty.

[zoom]

It will be interesting to see if state manuals or recommendations change as a result of the new national mechanic manual.  I don't see an issue with giving the number.

[TNofficial]

According to our new mechanics manual, Tennessee is now requiring referees to announce the number of the offending player when using a microphone.  We have moved away from Federation mechanics starting this year and have created our own set of mechanics as we transition to having more and more games using 7 man crews.

[AlUpstateNY]

An honest question, what is the benefit of "announcing" (in addition to advising the respective coach) of the identity of the player commiting a foul?  I understand the remedial benefit potential of pointing out a violation to a coach in a position to reinfource correct behavior, but what (if anything, is the benefit of publicly identifying a student athlete's mistake to spectators in general?

I'm presuming it's a standard practices to identify the fouling player to THAT PLAYER's Coach. What does it add to the game, to publicise individual player mistakes?

[Osric Pureheart]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xag52o_ben-dreith-best-referee-announcemen_sport

Eeesh, huge downgrade here.  He started his announcement with "We have..."!

[NorCalMike]

I'm presuming it's a standard practices to identify the fouling player to THAT PLAYER's Coach. What does it add to the game, to publicise individual player mistakes?

Probably because they do it in NCAA and NFL. Not sure it adds the game but people expect it at the higher levels and these things tend to trickle down (Maybe Reagan was right  ). Just think off black pants and wider stripes.

[Rulesman]

An honest question, what is the benefit of "announcing" (in addition to advising the respective coach) of the identity of the player commiting a foul?  I understand the remedial benefit potential of pointing out a violation to a coach in a position to reinfource correct behavior, but what (if anything, is the benefit of publicly identifying a student athlete's mistake to spectators in general?

I'm presuming it's a standard practices to identify the fouling player to THAT PLAYER's Coach. What does it add to the game, to publicise individual player mistakes?

Name one other sport that doesn't identify the player who "fouled" or otherwise committed a "violation" of a rule?

[AlUpstateNY]

Name one other sport that doesn't identify the player who "fouled" or otherwise committed a "violation" of a rule?

Do you remember your mother asking, "If Joey jumps off the roof does that mean you have to?".  If there's no good reason why we should, then why should we?

[Atlanta Blue]

1.  More and more games are televised these days, even if it's only on the internet.  In addition, film is used even more to grade not only players, but officials.  By making the announcement, it removes the guess work of trying to figure out where the foul was called.  If the announcement is not made, announcers, (most of whom are even more amateur than those you see on major games), are going to guess at where the foul was.  I would rather they KNOW than guess and make the situation even worse.

2.  Coaches want to know for corrective purposes.  If the call was made by a wing on the opposite side of the field, it may take a while to get it relayed back to the correct sideline.

3.  If film is being used to grade and chose playoff officials (as it is more and more these days), then announcing the offender helps the process, removing guesswork on the part of the grader.

4.  Side benefit, officials need to concentrate more in order to be able to report the number.  "Don't know coach, only saw the hand on the jersey" will become a less accepted answer as time goes on.  In the NFL, it is a downgrade if the official doesn't have the number of the fouler.  I understand HS officials aren't NFL caliber, but they should strive to be, and that includes improving concentration.  If you throw a flag, you had better know upon whom you are throwing it.

5.  The main reason for not doing so before was not to "embarrass" the player.  These are high school kids playing a competitive game.  The embarrassment argument is so minor as to not even be an issue anymore.  In basketball, their number is called out, and put on the scoreboard.  We used to make them raise their hand!  In soccer, we stand over them with a card.  In lacrosse or hockey, their number is called AND we make them go sit by themselves for period of time.  We say that the field is an extension of the classroom; well, in the classroom, if a student is acting out or doing something that disrupts the rest of the class, they are called out for it, by name.  If a player can't take the "embarrassment" of having his number called when he fouls, if his self esteem is so damaged by having it pointed out that he was the fouler, then he's in the wrong game, with deeper issues than football can solve.

In short, there are a number of reasons for doing so, it brings football more in line with other high school sports, and there's no good reason for NOT doing it.

So sometimes, jumping off the roof because Joey is doing it is a good thing.

[HLinNC]

"Do you remember your mother asking, "If Joey jumps off the roof does that mean you have to?".  If there's no good reason why we should, then why should we?"

That is to keep you from doing something stupid.  What difference does it make?  Basketball, including NFHS, has done it for years.  It aids in game administration if for no other reason.  That isn't stupid.  No need to shuttle info from one wing through the BJ or U to the other side with the chance to garble the communication.

Moms also say "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[bossman72]

PA still says to not announce numbers.  Truthfully, I don't think they have any idea the mechanic changed...

[Rulesman]

Do you remember your mother asking, "If Joey jumps off the roof does that mean you have to?".  If there's no good reason why we should, then why should we?

It's called communication. You didn't answer the question.

[Atlanta Blue]

Moms also say "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Well played!

[AlUpstateNY]

"
Moms also say "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Which is another solid example of why you should listen to your mother.  Sorry but I'm still looking for a "GOOD" reason, that actually means something.  So far I've been told;

They all do it on TV, at the upper levels.

For some reason, I should care that "they do it at other sports".

Coaches want to know, but a standard practice has long been to advise the Head Coach, directly.  If it is taking too long, coach, consider patience is a virtue and both you, as well as the official getting the information to you, may be detained by something important.

Avoid garbling the information. Wouldn't just being a little more careful accomplish that?

"Maybe" film is being used to grade officials for post season.  (You guys in Georgia really seem obsessed with post season assignments) Isn't it ALL, not supposed to be about us?

Somebody (Who?) expects it at higher levels, really?

The justification suggested for "embarrassing" the guilty players, is more a topic for "The View" or "Opra".

Apparently some believe, "In short, there are a number of reasons for doing so, it brings football more in line with other high school sports, and there's no good reason for NOT doing it.", although I haven't seen any presented here, and "everyone else is doing it" has never shown to be good excuse for doing much of anything, EVER. 

Can someone answer the original question, I understand it gives Referee's an opportunity to control a new, and shiny, spotlight that promotes a moment of notoriety, but since the game has existed for somewhere near 100 years without this information being broadcast,  what, if anything, has changed to make it so needed now?  Change and progress is fine, when something is actually improved or enhanced, but we should all understand that change for change sake doesn't always turn out as expected, or advertised.

There's another "old" saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", although most times that was likely advice from your father.

 

[Atlanta Blue]

Al:

Better make sure those knickers are bleached, and the pea in your whistle isn't sticking.

[NorCalMike]

You haven't given a good reason not to do it. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is not a valid reason not to change things.