Runner and Stiffarms

[theunofficialofficial]

My first topic, hopefully I don't screw it up.

I'm looking for some help with the NFHS rules on Runners and "stiff arming". Rules are tightening up about what is and isn't a face mask penalty, but what about runners who stiff arm to the helmet? Specifically the face mask portion? If he doesn't grasp the mask is that legal? What about if he does - 5 yards or 15? What about if he stiff arms to any other part of the helmet with or without grabbing?


I imagine that in any open handed situation it's legal, and any closed hand 'grabbing' it's a penalty. But, I'm trying to find rules that site that specifically and good ways to explain the difference to a coach.


Thanks

[HLinNC]

He may not grasp the facemask = 5 yards.  He may not deliver a blow = PF 15 yds..

[VALJ]

Welcome to the forum!

As HL indicates, the runner may not grab the face mask (or any other part of the helmet) of the defender.  An open hand is perfectly legal.  And it's possible, though EXTREMELY unlikely, that you could even have a 15-yard FM penalty on the runner.

He's also correct about the runner delivering a blow being a 15-yard penalty.  As far as the judgment whether the runner is simply doing a straight-arm or using the opportunity to deliver a blow to the defender's head, that's why we get paid the big bucks. 

[Ralph Damren]

Hump Day Challenge : 2 & 10 @ 50 - (1) Lefty ,the QB ,is scrambling and is about to be sacked by Tugboat ,the noseguard, at A's 40 ; (2) Lefty grabs Tugboat's mask and flings him to the ground @ A's 40 ; (3) Lefty fumbles @ A's 38 ; (4) Bubba, the OT, scoops up the ball and in  runs the wrong way until he collapses @ A's 10. YOU MAKE THE CALL.........

          Oh by the way, welcome to the forum. Hope you find it both enjoyable and informative .

[TNofficial]

Hump Day Challenge : 2 & 10 @ 50 - (1) Lefty ,the QB ,is scrambling and is about to be sacked by Tugboat ,the noseguard, at A's 40 ; (2) Lefty grabs Tugboat's mask and flings him to the ground @ A's 40 ; (3) Lefty fumbles @ A's 38 ; (4) Bubba, the OT, scoops up the ball and in  runs the wrong way until he collapses @ A's 10. YOU MAKE THE CALL.........

          Oh by the way, welcome to the forum. Hope you find it both enjoyable and informative .

Let me give this a try.  If Lefty flings Tugboat to the ground by his facemask, it should be the rare facemask penalty on A, 15 yards.  This would be enforced from the end of the run which would be A's 38 since that is where Lefty fumbled.  However, Bubba recovered the fumble and ran the ball back to A's 10 where he downs himself by collapsing which would be the result of the play.  Thus B has two options.  They can either take the ball 2 & 37 at A's 23 or 3 & 50 at A's 10.

[Atlanta Blue]

Hump Day Challenge : 2 & 10 @ 50 - (1) Lefty ,the QB ,is scrambling and is about to be sacked by Tugboat ,the noseguard, at A's 40 ; (2) Lefty grabs Tugboat's mask and flings him to the ground @ A's 40 ; (3) Lefty fumbles @ A's 38 ; (4) Bubba, the OT, scoops up the ball and in  runs the wrong way until he collapses @ A's 10. YOU MAKE THE CALL.........

          Oh by the way, welcome to the forum. Hope you find it both enjoyable and informative .

15 FM foul on A during a loose ball play.  Basic spot is the previous spot, foul was behind the previous spot, enforce from spot of the foul.


So B can decline the foul and have 3 & 50 at the A10, or accept and it will be A's ball 2 & 35 from the A25.

Pretty obvious choice.

[prab]

How about complicating the Hump Day Challenge even more?  When R is explaining B's choices, he notices that the number on Captain B1's jersey is only 7 7/8 inches high instead of the required 8 inches?

[Ralph Damren]

AB wins the Kewpie Doll ! This qualified as a loose ball play with the basic spot being the previous spot. The foul by the offense behind the previous spot applies the all-but-one principle. The prom queen's divorced mom carries a compus in her makeup kit and it will be presented to Bubba at postgame.

[Ralph Damren]

How about complicating the Hump Day Challenge even more?  When R is explaining B's choices, he notices that the number on Captain B1's jersey is only 7 7/8 inches high instead of the required 8 inches?

This would be treated under the shrinkage provision and the captain would be allowed to use his mom's eyeshadow to enlarge his numbers to proper size. His team would be charged a timeout while this function was being performed.

[prab]

This would be treated under the shrinkage provision and the captain would be allowed to use his mom's eyeshadow to enlarge his numbers to proper size. His team would be charged a timeout while this function was being performed.

TOUCHE!!!!

[VALJ]

How about complicating the Hump Day Challenge even more?  When R is explaining B's choices, he notices that the number on Captain B1's jersey is only 7 7/8 inches high instead of the required 8 inches?

If I'm working H and that R can make out an eighth of an inch, he darn well should never need to call for a measurement, and the only way I let him have one is when we need it for political reasons. 

[Atlanta Blue]

AB wins the Kewpie Doll !

Just a dumb, old coach winning that doll. 

[Matt]

The nickname of the nose guard on my varsity team actually was Tugboat! Low and slow but pushed everybody out of the way.

[Ralph Damren]

Just a dumb, old coach winning that doll. 

IMHO, AB would also win the Kewpie Doll for rules knowledgeable coaches of any coaches I've ever met. He would have made a great replacement for Dr. R , who is retiring from the Rules Committee from his state.

[Rulesman]

Don't give him the big head! 

[VALJ]

IMHO, AB would also win the Kewpie Doll for rules knowledgeable coaches of any coaches I've ever met. He would have made a great replacement for Dr. R , who is retiring from the Rules Committee from his state.

I've said many times it's a shame that AB is on the dark side as a coach.  We could use more officials who know the rules as well as he does.