New and Approved Rulings for 6-3-11

[SJ_2010]

I saw the new rule (oops EDITORIAL) change related to 6-3-11.  However, I don't understand the ruling for the AR 6-3-11 IV.

Rule 6-3-11
Loose Behind the Goal Line—ARTICLE 11
IV. Team A kicks from the 50-yard line. During the kick, B1 clips at Team B’s 25-yard
line. The untouched kick is batted backward out of bounds from the end zone by Team A
and goes out of bounds on the two-yard line.
RULING: No foul for batting the ball in the end zone. Illegal touching. B77’s clipping foul
is governed by postscrimmage kick rules. Team A will accept the penalty, which cancels
the illegal touching privilege. The penalty is enforced at the postscrimmage kick spot,
the B-20, half the distance to the goal. Team B’s ball at the B-10.

According to 2-25-11 the B-20 becomes the PSK spot only for kicks that end in the end zone and by definition 2-25-9 this kick ends at the B-2.  Since the illegal touching violation is canceled, shouldn't this penalty be enforced 1/2 the distance from the end of the kick, or B 1/10 B-1.  Please help me understand what I am missing that gives B the ball on the B-10.  Thanks!

[Kalle]

According to Rom Gilbert there is confusion among the more knowledgeable rules guys as to what the new rule change really mean, so I'm waiting for the confusion to clear (there should be a mini missive coming out soon). As this is not listed as a rule change, I'm assuming that the new rule and the new A.R. together really mean to say what the old rule said - which is not good, as the old rule did really say that, why change it if there was no change intended?

[Etref]

Wouldn't the ball be dead in the EZ when touched or batted by A?

[Hondo]

Rule 2-25-11-b, special case 2 states when 6-3-11 is in effect the PSK is the 20.

Rule 6-3-11 states  batting by Team A of a untouched by B scrimmage kick in Team B EZ is a violation and not a foul and the spot is the 20.

So to me if Team B will next put the ball into play the PSK spot will be the 20.

So in this play, B fouled during the kick. Since all criteria for PSK are met we have a PSK enforcement. the batting by Team A in the EZ, puts the PSK spot at the 20.  The foul in beyond the PSK so we enforce from the 20.

Without this provision Team A would not be penalized for batting in the EZ

[SJ_2010]

Thanks Hondo.  The special case 2 nails it!

[Legacy Zebra]

Did I miss something? I'm looking at the list of editorial changes and don't see anything about 6-3-11. What change are y'all talking about?

[Hondo]

New AR's  6-3-11 listed on page FI-3

[bossman72]

Did I miss something? I'm looking at the list of editorial changes and don't see anything about 6-3-11. What change are y'all talking about?

Look at the updated pdf rulebook on the CFO site too

[Kalle]

Old rule 6-3-11: "If a scrimmage kick untouched by Team B after crossing the neutral zone is batted in Team B’s end zone by a player of Team A, it is a violation for illegal touching (Rule 6-3-2). This is a special case of illegal touching: Team B’s privilege for this violation is not canceled by an accepted penalty. It is canceled by offsetting fouls (Rule 6-3-2-b). The spot of the violation is Team B’s 20-yard line, which is the postscrimmage kick spot for fouls by Team B (Rule 2-25-11).The B-20 may also be a penalty enforcement spot for fouls by Team A during the kick play (Rules 6-3-13 and 10-2-4) (A.R. 6-3-11-I-III and A.R 2-12-2-I)."

New rule 6-3-11: "If a scrimmage kick untouched by Team B after crossing the neutral zone is batted in Team B’s end zone by a player of Team A, it is a violation for illegal touching (Rule 6-3-2). The spot of the violation is Team B’s 20-yard line. This is a special case of batting in the end zone and is not a foul. (A.R. 6-3-11-I-V and A.R 2-12-2-I)."

Another problem is that the new rule at least seems to say that team A fouls during the kick play may not be enforced from B-20, as this is neither a touchback nor the spot where the dead ball belongs to team B.

[TXMike]

Agree Kalle.  And it makes sense that the B-20 not be an enforcement spot for the Team A foul.  That would be giving B their cake and letting them eat it too.  If an accepted penalty wipes out an illegal touch then there is no way to enforce from the B-20 if the only reason the ball is at the B-20 is the illegal touch ('bat") in the EZ.  So you can't have the illegal touch "reward" and the penalty "reward".

[Diablo]

Does anyone recall why the rules markers decided to tackon penalties for Team A fouls during a kick play?

[TXMike]

The reason I recall was that they wanted to cut down the number of rekicks to 1- reduce injuries and 2 - speed up the game

http://football.refs.org/rules/NCAA2007pr.html


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/preview06/news/story?id=2543105

[SanDiegoStryker]

So with this change, any fouls by B, when they are PSK and A bats in the end zone, are enforced the same as always. However, a foul by A during the kick, when A then bats in the end zone cannot be enforced from the B-20. B will have the choice to decline the foul and take the touchback, or they can accept the foul which would be enforced at the previous spot. Is that correct?

[TXMike]

Based on the ARs I think you are right.  And in the absence of any definitive guidance or logic some other way, that may be the easiest way to think about it

[Kirby]

So with this change, any fouls by B, when they are PSK and A bats in the end zone, are enforced the same as always. However, a foul by A during the kick, when A then bats in the end zone cannot be enforced from the B-20. B will have the choice to decline the foul and take the touchback, or they can accept the foul which would be enforced at the previous spot. Is that correct?

Most of the time, yes because usually the ball either becomes dead in the end zone or very close to the goal-line. However, the tack-on provision could still apply and be more advantageous for team B if, for example, the batted ball becomes dead at the B-10 and the team A foul includes a 15-yard penalty. In this case the result would be B 1&10 @ B-25 OR the option would exist to replay the down with enforcement from the previous spot.

[Diablo]

There is another difference between the old and new 6-3-11.  The old passage states B's privilege "...is canceled by offsetting fouls ..."  That statement does not appear in the updated rule book.

Significance?

[Kalle]

There is another difference between the old and new 6-3-11.  The old passage states B's privilege "...is canceled by offsetting fouls ..."  That statement does not appear in the updated rule book.

Significance?

I don't think that is significant. It would be strange if it wouldn't be cancelled, as there is no rule language exempting it.

[TXMike]

I think it is just reinforcing the idea that PSK is an exception to offsetting foul enforcement.

4th and 20 at the 50.  A's punt is batted by A while ball is over the end zone.  Ball rolls into field of play and OOB at B-5.  A was in an illegal formation at the snap and B held at the B-40 during the kick.  B can decline offsetting fouls and have its foul handled as a PSK enforcement.  B 1st and 10 at B-10

[Diablo]

I think it is just reinforcing the idea that PSK is an exception to offsetting foul enforcement.

4th and 20 at the 50.  A's punt is batted by A while ball is over the end zone.  Ball rolls into field of play and OOB at B-5.  A was in an illegal formation at the snap and B held at the B-40 during the kick.  B can decline offsetting fouls and have its foul handled as a PSK enforcement.  B 1st and 10 at B-10

What if Team B's foul does not qualify for PSKE?

[bossman72]

What if Team B's foul does not qualify for PSKE?

In TXMike's example, the fouls would offset and replay the down. 

[CD]

I was going through my printouts of the changes (editorial and rule) and couldn't find anything about the change to 6-3-11.  Maybe I have an older version that I was looking at.  Can someone give a link or let me know where the "new" version of 6-3-11 is?  And thanks Kalle for posting it.

[TXMike]

You need to look in the revised rulebook for 2014.  They are in there.

[CD]

Ah...ok.  Thanks TXMike. 

[Hondo]

Make sure it is the July 2014 version.