Author Topic: Inadvertant whistle question (Read 20172 times)

VALJ · « **on:** August 22, 2014, 09:15:39 AM »

A is down by 5 points with the clock at 9 seconds in the fourth quarter. A34 breaks through the line of scrimmage and is clearly on his way for a touchdown when the LJ for some reason blows an inadvertent whistle. The whistle is blown with 2 seconds left on the clock. After a pleasant discussion with A's head coach

, the R blows the ready for play, and (per 3-4-2-c) winds the clock. The clock hits zeros before A snaps the ball.

1) Do we have an untimed down?
2) How many rounds does LJ have to buy post-game?
3) How far away from the game site should the officials be post-game before they stop to enjoy a beverage on LJ's dime?

bossman72 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2014, 09:19:26 AM »

Game over. Make sure you have a police escort all the way home! haha

OHref71 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2014, 09:46:56 AM »

1. It would depend on what A coach's decision. if he replayed the down then untimed down if he took result of the play game over.

2. Every round all year or until next inadvertant whistle.

3. 2 states away.

Bwest · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2014, 10:34:11 AM »

Quote from: OHref71 on August 22, 2014, 09:46:56 AM

1. It would depend on what A coach's decision. if he replayed the down then untimed down if he took result of the play game over.

This is not correct and I've known a crew to get in trouble for applying the rule like that. If the clock has hit zeroes DURING the play (or if we were using last years rule for untimed downs), there will be an untimed down for an inadvertent whistle regardless of the option the offended team elects. You can take the result and still get an untimed down.

bossman72 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2014, 10:44:33 AM »

We can't have an untimed down on this play. The down ended with 2 seconds left

bbeagle · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2014, 10:54:45 AM »

Quote from: bossman72 on August 22, 2014, 10:44:33 AM

We can't have an untimed down on this play. The down ended with 2 seconds left

If this was a 4-person game, since the LJ has the clock.....

The LJ, in addition to the inadvertent whistle, should also inform the referee that the game clock ran out just before his inadvertent whistle....

Do two wrongs make a right?

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2014, 10:56:05 AM »

Under either the former, or current rule, it seems there are several opportunities to simply start the inevitable replay on the snap, and avoid all the consternation ( well at least the parts related to the clock expiring).

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2014, 11:11:47 AM »

Quote from: bbeagle on August 22, 2014, 10:54:45 AM

Do two wrongs make a right?

No, but 3 lefts do

FBUmp · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2014, 11:37:57 AM »

I would explain to the coach that we will replay the down if he chooses to. However, the clock will start on the snap. Give both teams an opportunity to get ready and A an opportunity to run the play.

VALJ · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:48:02 PM »

Oh, I would definitely make sure that both coaches know that the clock will start on the snap, if for no other reason than preventive.

Thanks for the feedback. That's they way I interpreted, but there has been some discussion in our weekly meeting.

VALJ · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:53:43 PM »

Quote from: AlUpstateNY on August 22, 2014, 10:56:05 AM

Under either the former, or current rule, it seems there are several opportunities to simply start the inevitable replay on the snap, and avoid all the consternation ( well at least the parts related to the clock expiring).

Out of curiosity, under what rule would this be possible? 3-4-2-c specifically states that the clock will start on the ready, and the new 3-3-3 sure seems to say there's no untimed down since the IW happened while time was on the clock. We don't have any attempting to consume or delay time illegally, so I'm not sure where in the rules I could hang my hat on for this.

While starting on the snap would probably be the "fairer" way to handle this - and I wonder if we'll see a revision to this rule for 2015 to allow an untimed down for an IW - it seems like that's a direct contradiction of the rules we have to work with.

Rulesman · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2014, 01:36:17 PM »

VALJ, do you really think the rules committee consider a change by bailing out an official for screwing up a good game? He penalizes Team A with a blatant lack of concentration and now you want to penalize Team B with a do-over by altering the timing rules? That sounds like a Russian/USA basketball game.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2014, 02:07:46 PM »

Exactly. There is already a resolution to this situation - KEEP THE WHISTLE OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!!

VALJ · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2014, 02:46:37 PM »

Rulesman, either way someone gets screwed, and in all honestly, even with a replay, theoretical team A is still on the short end of the stick - they were almost guaranteed a touchdown, and now they still have to make a play again.

No matter what happens, someone's gonna be ticked, and as Bossman says, will probably need assistance from the local law enforcement to make it out.

And Calhoun, that goes without saying.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2014, 03:57:45 PM »

Quote from: VALJ on August 22, 2014, 12:53:43 PM

Out of curiosity, under what rule would this be possible? While starting on the snap would probably be the "fairer" way to handle this - and I wonder if we'll see a revision to this rule for 2015 to allow an untimed down for an IW - it seems like that's a direct contradiction of the rules we have to work with.

You are correct, there is precious little specific authorization in the current rules authorizing dealing with this SPCIFIC situation regarding starting the clock on the snap. However in this VERY UNIQUE AND SPECIFIC example, stretching the intent included in NF 1-1-6, to suggest this very particular situation may not be "covered in the rules" allowing the common sense judgment and spirit of good sportsmanship to prevail may ( and i BELIEVE should) allow for indivdual assessment.

Ending the game under these SPECIFIC circumstances, unfortunately, would present a blatantly unfair conclusion to the contest, as this SPECIFIC conclusion places one competitor in a decidedly unfair disadvantage that is clearly NOT the INTENDED result of any rules. Of course such a judgment may be questioned, criticized or even reversed but sometimes doing what you believe to be right produces unanticipated consequences, you need to accept.

ECILLJ · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2014, 04:02:47 PM »

"What whistle? I didn't hear any whistle?"

If that doesn't work then I agree with Al and I would use the rule (not covered in the rules).

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2014, 08:48:55 PM »

It IS covered by the rules. The rules say it will start on the ready, as there was no major clock stopper to end the previous play. You don't get to make up new rules just to be "fair". If that were the case, we wouldn't have the debacle of a defensive holding call that causes a sack to be marked off from the end of the run, we wouldn't have a lock of first down on DPI, and a plethora of other rule loopholes.

"Coach, have your team ready, the clock will start on the ready whistle."

Tom.OH · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2014, 09:46:39 PM »

Quote from: VALJ on August 22, 2014, 09:15:39 AM

A is down by 5 points with the clock at 9 seconds in the fourth quarter. A34 breaks through the line of scrimmage and is clearly on his way for a touchdown when the LJ for some reason blows an inadvertent whistle. The whistle is blown with 2 seconds left on the clock. After a pleasant discussion with A's head coach , the R blows the ready for play, and (per 3-4-2-c) winds the clock. The clock hits zeros before A snaps the ball.

1) Do we have an untimed down?
2) How many rounds does LJ have to buy post-game?
3) How far away from the game site should the officials be post-game before they stop to enjoy a beverage on LJ's dime?

Why is it always the LJ in the IW posts!
Yes, I am a LJ...

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2014, 04:09:09 PM »

Quote from: ECILLJ on August 22, 2014, 04:02:47 PM

"What whistle? I didn't hear any whistle?"

If that doesn't work then I agree with Al and I would use the rule (not covered in the rules).

That would be kinda hard to do, especially if the runner stopped running. Ignorance may be bliss but it can also get u in big trouble. Better to man up and take your medicine, IMHO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NorCalMike · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2014, 01:21:33 AM »

Gotta agree with Calhoun about keeping the whistle out of your mouth. I guess its all those guys who ref basketball.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2014, 11:53:13 AM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on August 22, 2014, 08:48:55 PM

It IS covered by the rules. "Coach, have your team ready, the clock will start on the ready whistle."

That is absolutely correct, but the whistle to signal the RFP is in the Referee's mouth, and as NF: 2-35 suggests, he will signal when, "the ball may be put in play by a snap or free kick and the 25 second count is to begin". Common sense can often provide the details to accomplish what's right, within existing guidelines.

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #21 on:** August 24, 2014, 04:13:43 PM »

Quote from: AlUpstateNY on August 24, 2014, 11:53:13 AM

That is absolutely correct, but the whistle to signal the RFP is in the Referee's mouth, and as NF: 2-35 suggests, he will signal when, "the ball may be put in play by a snap or free kick and the 25 second count is to begin". Common sense can often provide the details to accomplish what's right, within existing guidelines.

I have no problem with the official telling the offense the clock will start on the RFP, and allowing them to get to the line and get ready before blowing it in. But that is a far cry from using 1-1-6 and "common sense" to start it on the snap out of "good sportsmanship".

There is a rule to deal with the situation. You don't have to make up any new ones.

VALJ · « **Reply #22 on:** August 25, 2014, 08:21:13 AM »

Quote from: Tom.OH on August 22, 2014, 09:46:39 PM

Why is it always the LJ in the IW posts!
Yes, I am a LJ...

Because I'm only willing to blame my own position...

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #23 on:** August 25, 2014, 03:33:28 PM »

Quote from: VALJ on August 25, 2014, 08:21:13 AM

Because I'm only willing to blame my own position...

That and the fact that umpires and back judges don't have whistles.

VALJ · « **Reply #24 on:** August 25, 2014, 03:49:42 PM »

Hey, I also back. They do have whistles - someone needs to kill the clock for a fair catch after they get out of their rocking chair.