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Author Topic: Live ball illegal substitution  (Read 13445 times)

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Offline VALJ

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Live ball illegal substitution
« on: August 29, 2014, 07:57:14 AM »
After the snap, a B player comes on the field but does not participate in the play, which is a dive up the middle. Since I'm on B's sideline, I flag it - he wasn't just a step or two on, but he didn't get close enough to the pile to hit somebody or anything.  We enforced it from the previous spot and replayed the down.

When I was in the car driving home, it hit me that we may have messed that enforcement up.  Since it was during a running play, shouldn't we have enforced that from the end of the run?
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ECILLJ

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2014, 08:15:05 AM »
disregard my question
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:22:14 AM by ECILLJ »
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ECILLJ

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2014, 08:20:47 AM »
3.7 Art. 5 An entering substitute shall be on his team's side of the neutral zone when the ball is snapped or kicked. (live ball foul- 5 yards).

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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 08:21:54 AM »
Quote from: ECILLJ on August 29, 2014, 08:20:47 AM
3.7 Art. 5 An entering substitute shall be on his team's side of the neutral zone when the ball is snapped or kicked. (live ball foul- 5 yards).
...IF he is not the 12th.... or more.
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Offline FLAHL

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 08:22:46 AM »
In the OP, the player entered after the snap. That's Illegal Substitution and enforced from the succeeding spot. It doesn't matter if he was the 11th or 12th player.  3-7-6.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:25:03 AM by FLAHL »
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 08:24:36 AM »
Quote from: FLAHL on August 29, 2014, 08:22:46 AM
It's Illegal Substitution and enforced from the succeeding spot. It doesn't matter if he was the 11th or 12th player.
Read 9-6-4
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Offline FLAHL

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 08:27:24 AM »
Quote from: Rulesman on August 29, 2014, 08:24:36 AM
Read 9-6-4

But he didn't participate. So I think 3-7-6 is the appropriate rule.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:29:09 AM by FLAHL »
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ECILLJ

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 08:30:23 AM »
Quote from: Rulesman on August 29, 2014, 08:24:36 AM
Read 9-6-4

To have 12 or more players participating at the snap or free kick (illegal participation- live-ball, previous spot, 15 yards).

I assume we can interpret this to also mean 12 players participating at or after the snap?

I agree the OP is Illegal substitution.
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Offline VALJ

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 09:22:22 AM »
He was the 11th player, not the 12th - sorry for not including that.  Thanks!
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2014, 09:34:29 AM »
Quote from: VALJ on August 29, 2014, 09:22:22 AM
He was the 11th player, not the 12th - sorry for not including that.  Thanks!
Minor details...
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Offline bossman72

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 08:14:19 AM »
If you deemed that he did not participate, it's 5 yards from the succeeding spot.

If you deemed that he DID participate, it's 15 yards, basic spot enforcement, spot of the foul is where he participated.
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Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 12:50:08 PM »
Quote from: bossman72 on September 03, 2014, 08:14:19 AM
If you deemed that he did not participate, it's 5 yards from the succeeding spot.

If you deemed that he DID participate, it's 15 yards, basic spot enforcement, spot of the foul is where he participated.
     :thumbup tiphat:    If he did something to or gained the attention of an opponent = 15 . If he merely wandered out on the field and no opponent noticed = 5 succeeding spot (his foul had no impact on the play). If he wandered up into the stands on quest of the prom queen = sideline interference (first offense -warning).
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bdalyatwork

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 03:20:25 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.
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Offline Jackhammer

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 06:05:20 PM »
Quote from: Ralph Damren on September 03, 2014, 12:50:08 PM
     :thumbup tiphat:  If he wandered up into the stands on quest of the prom queen = sideline interference (first offense -warning).

I'd think that might be an illegal and very forward pass...
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Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Live ball illegal substitution
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2014, 06:36:47 AM »
Quote from: Jackhammer on September 03, 2014, 06:05:20 PM
I'd think that might be an illegal and very forward pass...
Good point...it would be enforced from the spot of the foul and include loss of down/date. Other potential fouls : (1) Illegal personal contact ; (2) illegal touching ; (3) butt tackling. P_S
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