Author Topic: Relationship with WH and sideline plays  (Read 2522 times)

Offline ALStripes17

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Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« on: August 30, 2014, 08:07:00 AM »
Wing guys:

How do you handle a white hat who blatantly disregards your out of bounds signal before he blows the RFP on close plays that end on sideline or OOB?

I know many guys are in the camp of 'game management, keep the clock running' but I have a hard time playing that game when a player may be contacted in bounds but lands 3 or 4 yds OOB due to the contact (still moving forward after contact)

"I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me - all I ask is that you respect me as a human being"

-Unknown-

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2014, 08:56:08 AM »
How you handle that probably depends on your WH's personality. If he's open and approachable, maybe you just ask him. If he's a "my way or the highway" guy, there might not be much you can do. One suggestion might be to cover inbounds/OoB in your pregame and get input from the entire crew, assuming your WH is ok with that.
"Never argue with stupid people.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2014, 08:37:00 AM »
Communications with grumpy white hats >:( :( :o reminds me of a situation in my early years when I was a meek , shy wing official. With a grumpy ole' white hat at the helm and late in an already decided game, the following occurred  when 4 & 10 @ A's 15 with A punting : (1)K's kick is blocked by R; (2) kick bounces back thru K's endzone ; (3) white hat places ball @K's 20 AND ; (4) signals TOUCHBACK and GIVES R THE BALL 1 & 10 going in :o :!# cRaZy pray:; ???!! Later on our way home and after some post-game libation, got the nerve to ask : "Mister, why wasn't that a safety ??? ????". Mister white hat responded : " 'Cause I don't like to mess with #$%*&@* kickoffs." I got my answer. :bOW

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2014, 09:49:20 AM »
Wing guys:

How do you handle a white hat who blatantly disregards your out of bounds signal before he blows the RFP on close plays that end on sideline or OOB?

I know many guys are in the camp of 'game management, keep the clock running' but I have a hard time playing that game when a player may be contacted in bounds but lands 3 or 4 yds OOB due to the contact (still moving forward after contact)
If you know for sure the clock should be "at the snap" ( runner was OOB):
When he winds, give him the 'tweet, tweet', kill the clock and jog in and inform him the clock is on the snap.
If he is winding when he should not, to some evaluators, that's a downgrade on the whole crew.

Offline Jim D.

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2014, 10:24:31 AM »
I agree with Steve - stop the clock.  Do that a few times, and maybe your WH will get his head out of his butt and pay attention to your signals.

Same logic if he's winding before everyone is set (HL setting up the chains after a first down, for example or a BJ on a kickoff).  If the WH winds before the HL is ready, the HL needs to stop the clock and get his job done.  Then point to the WH and tell him to wind.

Offline Johnponz

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 08:09:26 AM »
While the R is "first" among equals, all of the officials have concurrent authority and need to work as a team.  The days of a dictatorial R in football are long gone.  These dinosaurs need to make a quick exit.  The officials are a crew and need to work together.  The R is more like the center of a communications hub than he is the "boss."

Yes by the book the R has the final say, but any R that uses this authority too often should not be working the position.  I have been bailed out many times by crew members, and I appreciate the help.  The rules are complicated, and while I know the rules pretty well, it is very easy to get mixed up in the heat of battle.  Any of my crew mates is welcome to correct me at any time, and I will listen.

Finally, in the modern game "power" should not even by in an official's (including the R's) mindset.  Everyone needs to leave their ego in the locker room.  The officials who really get themselves into the most trouble are the ones with the mindset that we are "in charge" and will not accept input or talk to the coaches.  This worked in the early '90s when I first started.  this strategy does not work anymore.  You really need a customer service focus to do this job right.  With all of the film and ease of sending that film around it is really too easy to prove that the official was wrong.  You look like a real jerk if you insist beyond all reason that you are right, and then later the tape shows you were wrong. (I know this is a little bit of a rant but I believe it to be important).  Finally, remember none of us are bigger or more important than this great game.

The truth is the U runs the game.  The R is there to look good and communicate what is happening.  A good U is worth his weight in gold.  I heard a very senior R say  the U controls everything.  He is just nice enough to allow us R's time to signal.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 08:19:36 AM by Johnponz »

Offline bdalyatwork

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 08:24:19 AM »
Excellent post John.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 08:38:33 AM »

Offline Curious

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 09:58:58 AM »
"The days of a dictatorial R in football are long gone.  These dinosaurs need to make a quick exit.... 

Finally, remember none of us are bigger or more important than this great game."


+1

Probably time to find a new crew!

Offline Kalle

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 10:15:24 AM »
If the WH wants to wind the clock at the RFP, maybe he should move to somewhere where he can work with NCAA rules.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 11:47:43 AM »
One of, if not THE most egregious mistake officials can EVER make, is to allow the focus to shift from that of a healthy contest between opposing teams to one of determining which official has the biggest.....ego. 

ANYTIME there is ANY conflict between officials the matter should be addresses quickly, privately,  inconspicuously, and if at all possible during a regular break in the proceedings.  If it requires an immediate determination requiring stopping play, the discussion MUST be private, apart from all players, without demonstrable emotion or ANY supporting gestures.  Other than the direct participants, (which may include other crew members) NOBODY should have any idea what is being discussed.

If someone (anyone) is foolish enough to persist in continuing the problem, that is a matter to be concluded AFTER the contest is over through appropriate channels, which may also be the appropriate venue for addressing philosophical differences.

Often, remembering to be the serious adult requires biting one's lip.

Offline SouthGARef

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Re: Relationship with WH and sideline plays
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 11:52:40 AM »
While the R is "first" among equals, all of the officials have concurrent authority and need to work as a team.  The days of a dictatorial R in football are long gone.  These dinosaurs need to make a quick exit.  The officials are a crew and need to work together.  The R is more like the center of a communications hub than he is the "boss."

Yes by the book the R has the final say, but any R that uses this authority too often should not be working the position.  I have been bailed out many times by crew members, and I appreciate the help.  The rules are complicated, and while I know the rules pretty well, it is very easy to get mixed up in the heat of battle.  Any of my crew mates is welcome to correct me at any time, and I will listen.

Finally, in the modern game "power" should not even by in an official's (including the R's) mindset.  Everyone needs to leave their ego in the locker room.  The officials who really get themselves into the most trouble are the ones with the mindset that we are "in charge" and will not accept input or talk to the coaches.  This worked in the early '90s when I first started.  this strategy does not work anymore.  You really need a customer service focus to do this job right.  With all of the film and ease of sending that film around it is really too easy to prove that the official was wrong.  You look like a real jerk if you insist beyond all reason that you are right, and then later the tape shows you were wrong. (I know this is a little bit of a rant but I believe it to be important).  Finally, remember none of us are bigger or more important than this great game.

The truth is the U runs the game.  The R is there to look good and communicate what is happening.  A good U is worth his weight in gold.  I heard a very senior R say  the U controls everything.  He is just nice enough to allow us R's time to signal.

Preach on brother.