Ejecting coaches

[Welpe]

Does the UIL have or have they ever had a policy around ejecting a coach from either a sub-varsity or varsity game? I know under NCAA rules a coach can only be ejected if he makes physical contact.

[copedaddy]

So if the coach throws a chair (Bobby Knight style) out on the field we can only eject if he hits someone with it?

[Etref]

Two USC on coach and he is gone same as a player " subject to the rules"

[Birddog]

Two USC on coach and he is gone same as a player " subject to the rules"

9-2-6 addresses players and subs with two USL, but not coaches.

[Welpe]

So if the coach throws a chair (Bobby Knight style) out on the field we can only eject if he hits someone with it?

You must know what prompted this post.

[copedaddy]

No not really. It is just the example I use when someone tells officials we "can't" eject coaches in Texas

[mobetta285]

Unfortunately, I have been a part of a game where the former head coach at Sealy was ejected. His verbal assault on our crew started on the opening kickoff and with :09 remaining in the game he was allowed to go to his locker room. Only game I have ever been involved in where we have ejected a coach, and I hope that it's the last.

[BankerRef]

In my mind there are two lines they can't cross if they want to stick around.

1) Threat of violence - "I'm gonna kick your ---"
2) Actual intentional contact or attempted contact - throwing an unconnected punch or chair qualifies.

It really doesn't matter to me what the rules say or don't say on this.  If either of those things happen, either the coach leaves or I do.  I am happy to report that this has never happened to me though.

[Joe Stack]

9-1-1 says ALL flagrant fouls require disqualification. If a coach commits a flagrant foul, even one that doesn't involve contacting an official, he should be ejected.

If you think a coach has gone way too far in something that makes it too difficult to contine the game, suspend it. If a coach is constantly harrassing you or the crew, especially a subvarsity game, I've got no problem with you suspending it and letting UIL or TAPPS sort it out. Make sure this is abuse that is above and beyond anything ANYONE would consider reasonable, and don't get into a habit of suspending games. But if the coach starts throwing crap on the field, you either dump him or suspend.

[Etref]

1207 of UIL  addresses the penalty for a coach ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct

[TexDoc]

They sell these very small video recorders for about $20 on ebay, about the size of a pack of gum.  It fits in your shirt pocket such that you really don't know what it is if you're standing right in front of someone with one.  You buy the micro SD card that's big enough to last about an hour and you can record the first half with one and the second half with the other.  Anything the coaches say or do right in front of you, you got it on video. 

I've used one a few times and they work well.  The sound isn't the greatest but video doesn't lie.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4GB-HD-Mini-Spy-Gum-Camera-Pocket-Hidden-DV-DVR-Camcord-Nanny-1600x1200-Recorder-/111487386637?pt=US_Surveillance_Digital_Video_Recorders_Cards&hash=item19f52a840d

[copedaddy]

From 1207 UIL 

MINIMUM PENALTY FOR MISCONDUCT.
(1) Automatic Minimum Penalty. Any coach who is ejected from a contest for unsportsmanlike conduct, or any football  coach who is given two or more 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties during a contest may accept an automatic penalty  for their ejection or appeal the ejection. A coach who appeals their ejection is required to appear before the State Executive Committee. If the coach accepts their automatic penalty or their ejection is not overturned on appeal, the coach will be subject to:
(A) an automatic penalty of public reprimand (name will be published once in the Leaguer) and one year’s probation in the applicable sport; and
(B) completing the National Federation of State High School Associations Fundamentals of Coaching Course; and
(C) completing the National Federation of State High School Associations Teaching and Modeling Behavior
Course.
(2) Automatic Greater Penalty. If a coach so penalized has no proof of having completed the UIL Rules Compliance Program

[TexDoc]

Don't eject them.  Its a lot more fun to let them stick around and make real BUTTS of themselves.

[TXMike]

9-1-1 says ALL flagrant fouls require disqualification. If a coach commits a flagrant foul, even one that doesn't involve contacting an official, he should be ejected.

If you think a coach has gone way too far in something that makes it too difficult to contine the game, suspend it. If a coach is constantly harrassing you or the crew, especially a subvarsity game, I've got no problem with you suspending it and letting UIL or TAPPS sort it out. Make sure this is abuse that is above and beyond anything ANYONE would consider reasonable, and don't get into a habit of suspending games. But if the coach starts throwing crap on the field, you either dump him or suspend.

Careful with that Joe. There is a specific definition in the rulebook for a "flagrant foul" and sounds to me you may be thinking of Webster's definition instead of the rulebook's

[Welpe]

From 1207 UIL 

MINIMUM PENALTY FOR MISCONDUCT.
(1) Automatic Minimum Penalty. Any coach who is ejected from a contest for unsportsmanlike conduct, or any football  coach who is given two or more 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties during a contest may accept an automatic penalty  for their ejection or appeal the ejection. A coach who appeals their ejection is required to appear before the State Executive Committee. If the coach accepts their automatic penalty or their ejection is not overturned on appeal, the coach will be subject to:
(A) an automatic penalty of public reprimand (name will be published once in the Leaguer) and one year’s probation in the applicable sport; and
(B) completing the National Federation of State High School Associations Fundamentals of Coaching Course; and
(C) completing the National Federation of State High School Associations Teaching and Modeling Behavior
Course.
(2) Automatic Greater Penalty. If a coach so penalized has no proof of having completed the UIL Rules Compliance Program

Well that is interesting.

We've received guidance from the powers that be that we are not to eject coaches unless they make physical contact. If need be, we should suspend the game instead.

I understand there is no provision in NCAA rules to eject a coach except for that but for high school and below games I believe there needs to be, especially at the subvarsity level. I can't see how it is better to suspend an entire contest than it is to remove one problem coach. But maybe that's just the former Federation official, baseball umpire and basketball official in me.

I still think it is ridiculous there isn't an allowance for it in NCAA football but that's a discussion for another day!

[TXMike]

Think about this...there are many schools where the coach is the bus driver. He may be the only adult from that school at the site.  You DQ him and then what?  We are (I hope) talking about some very very very rare situations (situations where you even need to consider a DQ of coach)  And nobody I know of has EVER said NEVER DQ a coach.  It is just that we are not basketball, softball or baseball so let's not work the game like they do. They can't deal with a guy, they run him.  Let's use our wits and common sense and find a way to work with him

[Welpe]

And nobody I know of has EVER said NEVER DQ a coach.

That is what we were effectively told just not precisely that.

It is just that we are not basketball, softball or baseball so let's not work the game like they do. They can't deal with a guy, they run him.  Let's use our wits and common sense and find a way to work with him

That's not a fair characterization. Ejecting a coach is not a failure to deal with him - not always anyways, there are times it is I grant you - it's a tool that's been given to officials to remove a coach that no longer needs to be around because he is violating rules and his behavior is so poor that it is negatively impacting the contest.

Would you say that our Federation brethren who HAVE to eject a coach after two UNS fouls or one flagrant UNS foul are "failing to deal with him"? I wouldn't. Let's not kid ourselves that scholastic football here in Texas is something so different from the rest of the country. Other than the rules, it's not.

There are times in a basketball or baseball game when there might be only one coach available and that doesn't give him a free pass. It might make the official slower on the trigger but as my mentors in other sports have said, when it's time for him to go, he's got to go.

[Joe Stack]

There is a specific definition in the rulebook for a "flagrant foul"

Do you believe the NCAA rules committee ONLY envisioned a coach being ejected for physical contact with an official or a fight/punch and NO other act?

How many times are you going to allow a coach to stick his middle finger in your face in front of everyone? How about getting on a mic of some sort and leading the crowd to chant "bull4hit...?" Or tell someone on his sideline to find out which cars are ours and start smashing our windshields (whether in jest or not)?

[TXMike]

I am not talking about any of that.   It is using the phrase "flagrant foul" to describe any of them.  The book defines  flagrant and those are not

[Joe Stack]

The book defines "flagrant personal foul." It doesn't define, for example, flagrant unsportsmanlike foul. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Just like point of attack isn't defined but is almost universally accepted as a way to call holding, for example.

My question was based on your original response of what I suggested not fitting in with the definition. I agree, but asked what you were going to do in those situations. Hint: not all terms are clearly defined. (Not trying to be a smart BUTT -- just making sure my point is clear).

[NorCalMike]

Think about this...there are many schools where the coach is the bus driver. He may be the only adult from that school at the site. 

Boy I wish. Most of our teams have an equal number of coaches and players. And every one of them thinks they know the rule book.

[Arbitrator]

 


I'd absolutely love to procter a closed book NCAA football rules test for coaches, inclusive of the UIL exceptions, to see the absolute frustration that all but about 15% of them, plus one "learned"  Manor Road "doctored" Executive Director might incur! It would well be worth the price of admission!