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Author Topic: Blocking Below the Waist - defense  (Read 10559 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« on: December 08, 2014, 04:48:58 AM »
In all the discussions over blocking below the waist rules, one area we have not looked at very much is action by the defense.  In my mind, it has always been legal to block below the waist if trying to get to a ball you can legally possess or to a ball carrier.  But a video on Rom Gilbert's site has me rethinking that generalization:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeHv5qlZ2OA

Seems that if the defense can go low on an eligible receiver to get to a ball or a ball carrier, they should be able to do so against anyone.  But the way 9-1-6-d is worded, perhaps not.
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Offline ttown44

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 06:59:16 AM »
The reason for the flag here would be due to the change of possession on the play
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Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 01:02:39 PM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 08, 2014, 04:48:58 AM
In my mind, it has always been legal to block below the waist if trying to get to a ball you can legally possess or to a ball carrier.
In my mind it has always been illegal to block below the waist after a change of team possession or during any kick down.  Don't these trump all else?
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 01:06:50 PM »
I will have to look at the old books.  Just seems getting to ball or runner was always an exception
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Offline clearwall

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 02:03:33 PM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 08, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
I will have to look at the old books.  Just seems getting to ball or runner was always an exception

Wouldnt this be the definition of a tackle?
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 03:16:18 PM »
Not talking about ON the runner, talking about going through players to get to him
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Offline clearwall

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 03:34:44 PM »
Yeah, how would you distinguish between a bona fide attempt at a tackle or whether it was BBW? I think that's the reason for the exception.
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Offline Magician

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 03:55:11 PM »
The only player you can block low after a change of possession is the runner. He may have going for the runner but he missed and blocked someone else. This is a safety foul and an easy call.
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Offline ajv

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 06:10:21 PM »
Actually, the rule (after change of team possession) says ball carrier rather than runner. It was runner in '08; ball carrier in '09; back to runner in '11; and since '13 it's ball carrier again.

I still don't know why it keeps changing.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2014, 07:30:31 AM »
The rule 2 definitions are:

Runner and Ball Carrier
ARTICLE 7. a. The runner is a player in possession of a live ball or simulating possession of a live ball.
b. A ball carrier is a runner in possession of a live ball.

There has been some discussion of this in the past but apparently the rules committee has settled on the only exception to low blocks will be on the actual ball carrier who has possession of the ball and no longer include a runner.  That leaves out the need for us to make a judgment call of who is a "runner".
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2014, 07:45:29 AM »
Which is total BS.  Who among us will flag  a tackle below the waist against someone who is faking as if they have the ball ?
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Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2014, 08:15:09 AM »
Further sidetracking the discussion, the rules editor really botched the runner/ball carrier thing throughout the book when they added that term. 

It seems like things the opponent can do against the ball carrier should also be legal against a runner.
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Offline BlindZebra

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Re: Blocking Below the Waist - defense
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2014, 10:17:50 AM »
CLP 9-1-5-Exception 3 and IBB 9-3-3-c-Exception 3 are the only instances where the exception comes into play as far as I can tell.
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