Author Topic: Pats: Deflated Balls?  (Read 44277 times)

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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2015, 02:57:39 PM »
Is 51% enough to suspend a star player....I doubt it.
I don't believe I'd bet the farm on that. This story isn't over.
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Offline hefnerjm

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2015, 04:11:06 PM »
I find it interesting how some in the media are trying to protect their beloved Brady and the Patriots organization by deflcting this towards Walt Anderson (2015 AFC Championship Referee).

From today's MMQB: http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/11/dante-fowler-jaguars-tom-brady-deflategate-nfl-peter-king/5/

(emphasis mine)
_________________________________________________
Bear with me on this one. It’s about an eight- or nine-minute gap in the chain of security for the footballs that were used when the Patriots were on offense in the AFC Championship Game. It’s from the Wells Report. I think it’s important.

The day before the game, Colts GM Ryan Grigson emailed league officials with a warning for the following day. He said he wanted the officials to watch for the Patriots to possibly be using balls that were deflated below the 12.5 psi minimum limit. The next day, the number two man in the NFL officiating department, Alberto Riveron, met with game referee Walt Anderson and told him, according to the Wells Report, that “concerns had been raised about the game balls, and Anderson should be sure to follow proper pre-game procedures.”

This was the timeline in the Wells Report, about the minutes leading up to the 6:50 p.m. ET start of the game:

Approximately 6:30 p.m.: Patriots locker room assistant Jim McNally leaves the officials locker room with two bags of game balls.
6:30.35: McNally is seen on videotape walking through the tunnel in Gillette Stadium on the way to the field.
6:30.47: McNally enters a bathroom in the tunnel. (Not in the Wells Report, but figured out based on the one-minute, 40-second time the report said was how long McNally stayed in the bathroom.)
6:32.27: McNally exits the bathroom.
6:35: After some officials leave for the field, Anderson looks around and cannot find the footballs. The report said he is upset, and said this is the first time in his 19 years as an official the crew was not in control of the footballs consistently before the game.
6:36: Anderson and the NFL security representative in New England, Richard Farley, leave for the field. Once they get to the field, Farley asks an NFL official if he has seen McNally or the footballs. The league official, John Raucci, says he has seen neither.
Time not recorded, but probably about 6:39: Anderson and his crew notice McNally and the game balls are on the field.
6:42: Farley returns to the field with the alternate game balls, but seeing McNally and the regular balls are there, Farley returns the backup footballs to the officials locker room.

So, for eight or nine minutes, from 6:30 until at least 6:38, Anderson and his officiating crew lost track of the footballs. Hours after being warned that “concerns had been raised about the game balls,” for the first time in his 19 years as an official—according to Anderson—he couldn’t find the game balls for a period. And even with properly checked backup game balls on hand, Anderson didn’t use them. He used the footballs that had gone missing for eight or nine minutes.

I know that’s not the main point in this story, nor should it be. But it’s very surprising to me that Anderson didn’t heed the warning from his officiating boss about being extra careful with the footballs.

There’s no guarantee that McNally deflated 13 footballs in the 100 seconds he was inside the bathroom. But it’s clearly the most likely scenario raised by the report. And if Anderson had used the alternates, there’s a good chance none of this ever would have happened.

____________________________________________


In each of the bolded cases, it is interesting to me how it was failings of Anderson and crew when the Patriots clearly had a pattern of cheating.  The last bolded item is the one I actually agree with most...even after being warned, Anderson didnt change the balls...b/c if he had, there might never have been an investigation at all...or the punishments soon to be delivered. 

Sounds to me like the Boston-native author, Peter King, had some sour grapes that the Pats got caught, and is now trying to throw the officiating crew under the bus. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 04:16:42 PM by hefnerjm »
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2015, 05:42:19 PM »
And yet there it is -- just as I predicted --  4 games, $1 M fine and two draft picks.  I had 2 No.1's or a 1 and a 2, but they lost a No 1 and No. 4. 

Offline Tom.OH

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2015, 08:42:15 PM »
I disagree.  Deliberately tampering with the ball -- and then the cover up about it -- is a problem.  $1 M fine, 2 draft picks taken and 4 game suspension for Brady for failing to be open with the League.

  Just my humble opinion.

  And I don't really care one way or the other about NE -- but I do care about "the integrity of the game."

Holy cow, you nailed it!
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Offline goodgrr

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2015, 05:33:12 AM »

Offline VALJ

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2015, 09:11:28 AM »
I suspect that Goodell went 4 games knowing it would be reduced on appeal. I'm guessing after appeal we end up at 2.  Just like in a negotiation - ask for more than you want, so you can "settle" for what you want. 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2015, 10:45:18 AM »
As a member of Patriot's Nation, I wasn't surprised with the penalties. Brady is a high-profile player and the Pats are a high-profile team. If the guilty parties had been the Bucs and their 3rd string QB, no one outside of Tampa Bay would have known or cared. By "throwing the book" at Brady and the Pats, a message is sent to all : "Even the best best not cross the line P_S". In my days of youth, Paul Hornung was the NFL's Golden Boy until he bet on his own team = one year suspension. Gambling in the NFL has not been a problem since. MLB's "Charlie Hustle" earned a lifetime suspension after "r" was added to his nickname. He,too, bet on his own team and paid the price. Gambling in MLB has not been a problem since. If Bobby Valentine, in his sole year with the last place Bosox, had bet on his team; he probably would have been scolded with : "Lousy bet!!".

Will the suspension/sanctions hold ???? An appeal will follow and probably will be reduced BUT the message will have been sent. tiphat:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 10:56:34 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2015, 10:49:04 AM »
I suspect that Goodell went 4 games knowing it would be reduced on appeal. I'm guessing after appeal we end up at 2.  Just like in a negotiation - ask for more than you want, so you can "settle" for what you want.

The suspension is really the most short term piece of this punishment....the more serious thing is the impact to Brady's legacy.  He is now, officially, labeled a "cheater", and that will forever tarnish any accomplishment he has.

Interesting how Ralph is strangely silent on this day of days for his beloved Pats.  Ultimately, they didnt vacate the Super Bowl win, so he should still be cheering the hositing of a Lombardi  aWaRd

If you ask most teams around the league, and definitely most Pats fans, if the price of a Super Bowl trophy was a 1st and 4th round pick, $1M, and 4 games for their best player, I suspect most would take that deal.

Glad to see that integrity won the day for once.   
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2015, 10:50:14 AM »
Dang Ralph!!  As if on cue!  Well played
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 09:45:28 AM by hefnerjm »
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2015, 08:16:30 AM »
Today's topic related trivia :
  Who was the only Super Bowl championship QB who didn't play in his team's opener the following season??

NOTE : "was" is past tense, "will be" we know the answer to... yEs:

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2015, 08:51:18 AM »
Today's topic related trivia :
  Who was the only Super Bowl championship QB who didn't play in his team's opener the following season??

NOTE : "was" is past tense, "will be" we know the answer to... yEs:
Wild guess: Joe Willie.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2015, 08:58:41 AM »
Today's topic related trivia :
  Who was the only Super Bowl championship QB who didn't play in his team's opener the following season??

NOTE : "was" is past tense, "will be" we know the answer to... yEs:
  Big Ben?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2015, 09:05:50 AM »
DallasLJ wins the Kewpie Doll aWaRd. Big Ben set out the season opener in, I believe, 2006 with a deflated appendix. I believe BROADway Joe was taking snaps for the Jets following his Super Bowl victory.

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2015, 09:54:19 AM »
As a member of Patriot's Nation, I wasn't surprised with the penalties. Brady is a high-profile player and the Pats are a high-profile team. If the guilty parties had been the Bucs and their 3rd string QB, no one outside of Tampa Bay would have known or cared. By "throwing the book" at Brady and the Pats, a message is sent to all : "Even the best best not cross the line P_S". In my days of youth, Paul Hornung was the NFL's Golden Boy until he bet on his own team = one year suspension. Gambling in the NFL has not been a problem since. MLB's "Charlie Hustle" earned a lifetime suspension after "r" was added to his nickname. He,too, bet on his own team and paid the price. Gambling in MLB has not been a problem since. If Bobby Valentine, in his sole year with the last place Bosox, had bet on his team; he probably would have been scolded with : "Lousy bet!!".

Will the suspension/sanctions hold ???? An appeal will follow and probably will be reduced BUT the message will have been sent. tiphat:

Not only Paul Horning, Alex Karras was caught up in the betting probe and hanging around undesirable gents.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2015, 10:34:00 AM »
Not only Paul Horning, Alex Karras was caught up in the betting probe and hanging around undesirable gents.
Good point,Steve. From what I recall, Hornung quickly apologized and pleaded for mercy while Karras told the NFL what the "F" really stood for and took up pro wrestling. Both were suspended for one year. I believe Commish Roselle said something to the effect of : "...they both did the same thing, they both receive the same penalty, how they feel about it, is their business and not mine." P_S P_S

Sorta' like a stance Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis took many years prior in another sport. P_S P_S P_S P_S P_S P_S P_S P_S

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2015, 01:52:25 PM »
Per Adam Schefter

Regarding NFL decision to uphold Brady suspension, here is league statement:
In the opinion informing Brady that his appeal had been denied, Commissioner Goodell emphasized important new information disclosed by Brady and his representatives in connection with the hearing.
On or shortly before March 6, the day that Tom Brady met with independent investigator Ted Wells and his colleagues, Brady directed that the cell phone he had used for the prior four months be destroyed. He did so even though he was aware that the investigators had requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on that phone. During the four months that the cell phone was in use, Brady had exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved from that device. The destruction of the cell phone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after the investigators had first sought electronic information from Brady.
Based on the Wells Report and the evidence presented at the hearing, Commissioner Goodell concluded in his decision that Brady was aware of, and took steps to support, the actions of other team employees to deflate game footballs below the levels called for by the NFL's Official Playing Rules. The commissioner found that Brady’s deliberate destruction of potentially relevant evidence went beyond a mere failure to cooperate in the investigation and supported a finding that he had sought to hide evidence of his own participation in the underlying scheme to alter the footballs.
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2015, 01:06:37 PM »
  THOSE BOSTON PATRIOTS                               OUR MONTREAL/MAINE ALOUETTES 
 winner of 4 Super Bowls                                          winner of 7 Grey Cups

 Foxboro has : parking lots                                        Montreal has : St. Catherine St. ;)

 10 US $ = 1 Budwiser                                              10 US $=12 Can Loonie=2 LaBatts 
                                                                                                                                                  270.56 mi. Bangor - Foxboro                                     317.42 mi. Bangor - Montreal 
                                                                                (those 46.86 miles go fast!)

 touchback = 0 points                                                rouge = 1 point

VIVA LA" POMME D"TERRE ( long live the potato- Maine's favorite crop of harvest)

VIVA LES ALOUETTES (Mainer's new favorite team- It's often "fair weather" up here. tiphat:

 pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn

                                                             ;D
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:23:10 PM by Ralph Damren »

Offline Bwest

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2015, 06:22:37 PM »
I don't believe I'd bet the farm on that. This story isn't over.

Perhaps the biggest understatement in history here.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2015, 04:52:53 PM »
Perhaps the biggest understatement in history here.
Notice the date it was posted.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Bwest

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2015, 04:27:48 PM »
Notice the date it was posted.
Yeah, I know. Just, who would have thought it would get to this point.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2015, 07:16:20 PM »
Yeah, I know. Just, who would have thought it would get to this point.
That would be me. I'm not the least bit surprised.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline yarnnelg

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2015, 03:22:58 PM »
The NFL is still messing this up. From what I see there is now a form to fill out, 24 footballs, 12 to be played and 12 backups. Test, record and mark each 1-12 and 13-24. But you still hand the balls over to the equipment manager. Make the whole league ownership pay for the con. And let the ownership know this is because of the Player's Union and the challenge to the authority of the Commissioner, plus the cheating of New England. I'm sure the added cost will be greatly appreciated by the rest of the owners, though the cost is minor.

Provide a league approved pressure reader three times during the season. Have the old gauge returned for league testing. No unauthorized pressure readers in the bag.

1. There are many NCAA Officials wanting to move into the NFL. Add two Officials for every game. $500 game fee plus expenses paid, all by the home team owner. NFL assigns the officials.

2. Teams deliver two bags of footballs 12 balls each bag. Follow procedures, record pressure readings for balls 1-12 and balls 13-24. Official takes bag and he is the ball boy. Official two takes second bag, he is the ball boy. At the end of the first half test the balls for the sake of the silly lab tests performed trying to prove balls deflate in a test chamber. Take the second bag 13-24 to the field for the second half. Bring the bag back and test, record pressures and file report.

No lost chain of custody. Works far better in a court of law.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Pats: Deflated Balls?
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2015, 11:02:50 AM »
 Drama with a happy ending aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd.

  The game balls were fine, the Steeler head-sets were not;

   I believe that during WWII, Tokyo Rose and Axis Annie played distracting and annoying
    messages to our GIs.

    Forcing the Steelers to listen to the Patriots Radio Network was probably similar.

 aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd......2016 aWaRd???