Crossing the Receiver's Free-Kick Line

[Tdjr]

6-1-6 indicates that "If any K player touches a free kick before it crosses R's free-kick line....it is first touching".

My questions is....how are we interpreting "before it crosses R's Free-kick line".  Does the entire ball need to cross R's free-kick line before K can recover, or does the ball just need to break the plane (touch the 50 on a regular kick-off).

I'm visualizing the ball rolling slowly towards the 50, and I'm wondering how our line judges (5-man crew) are ruling on this.

[VALJ]

To me, if it "breaks the plane" of the 50, it's gone 10 yards.  Don't go looking for the fly poop in the pile of pepper.

[AlUpstateNY]

To me, if it "breaks the plane" of the 50, it's gone 10 yards.  Don't go looking for the fly poop in the pile of pepper.

Absolutely, especially a "ball rolling slowly towards the 50" will undoubtedly be surrounded by a mass of humanity and the outcome is dependent on the judgment (and visibility) of the covering official, breaking that plane. 

Equally important is the placement of the bean bag on the proper side of K's free kick line to accurately reflect that judgment.

[Bwest]

6-1-6 indicates that "If any K player touches a free kick before it crosses R's free-kick line....it is first touching".

My questions is....how are we interpreting "before it crosses R's Free-kick line".  Does the entire ball need to cross R's free-kick line before K can recover, or does the ball just need to break the plane (touch the 50 on a regular kick-off).

I'm visualizing the ball rolling slowly towards the 50, and I'm wondering how our line judges (5-man crew) are ruling on this.

There is further clarification in 6-1-5.

"Any K player may recover a free kick if it has both touched the ground and goes beyond the plane of R's free-kick line.

[Tdjr]

Seems that "breaking the plane" is the consensus.....thank goodness.

[Atlanta Blue]

Seems that "breaking the plane" is the consensus.....thank goodness.

I thought your concern was, "Where is the plane?", is it (assuming a kick from the K40) the front edge of the 50 yard line, the back edge, etc.  If your wings are getting that technical on a ball that is moving with roughly  10 to 12 bodies moving toward it and colliding at the same time, wow are they focused on the wrong things!

[Rulesman]

If your wings are getting that technical on a ball that is moving with roughly  10 to 12 bodies moving toward it and colliding at the same time, wow are they focused on the wrong things!

...and better than the rest of us, too. 

[ECILLJ]

Don't go looking for the fly poop in the pile of pepper.

LMAO, The fly poop line should be included in every crew pre-game meeting.

[bama_stripes]

If it touches the 50, it's gone 10 yards. 

Think about it in the same way you would a touchback.  If A advances the ball so that it
barely touches the A30, they get a new series.

[Atlanta Blue]

If it touches the 50, it's gone 10 yards. 

Think about it in the same way you would a touchback.  If A advances the ball so that it
barely touches the A30, they get a new series.

OK, here's my technical argument against that.  When the kicker sets up the ball, he sets it up ON the 40, not behind it, so the ball hasn't gone 10 yards until it has CROSSED the 50, not touched it.

That being said, I'm sure not expecting it to be called that way!  We can be technical when the play is over, ball is sitting still and the chains are brought out to measure.  On an onside kick, when the ball is moving, players are reaching for it and each other and all h#ll is breaking loose, if it touches the 50, that's good enough for me.

[bkdow]

It must be the off-season if we are spending this much time on this!

[bama_stripes]

OK, here's my technical argument against that.  When the kicker sets up the ball, he sets it up ON the 40, not behind it, so the ball hasn't gone 10 yards until it has CROSSED the 50, not touched it.

But, by rule, the succeeding spot after a FG or XPA is the K40.  The practice of allowing the kicker to set up so that the ball may actually be an inch ahead of the back side of that stripe is irrelevant.

[Ralph Damren]

I used to have a worry similar to this when preforming signal #2 (cranking the clock)... should I be signaling as if I was inside of the clock, looking out ...or... outside of the clock, looking in . .....I've yet to decide, but have yet to be confronted with a concern. On this concern, I would say the front of the line would set the imaginary plane up into the stratasphere. If questioned as to why the kicking tee could encroach within that 4'' line on K's side of a free kick, I would answer : "Because of the crown of the field -which can be 20" - the Earth's curvature and the gravitational pull on the noncaustic, nontoxic material used." If the coach had a rebuttal, I would then begin to worry.
               

[prab]

I realize that this subject is one that not many take very seriously.  However, there is a certain amount of mathematical elegance to the original question as well as to one of AB's earlier responses.

Mathematically speaking, a line is "that which has length but no breadth".  On a football field, the goal lines meet this definition.  The goal line itself is exactly where the white of the goal line stripe meets the edge of the green of the playing field. 

Logic dictates that the 50 yard line should be EXACTLY half way between the goal lines.  HOWEVER, this line is marked with a 4 inch wide stripe and that stripe no longer meets the mathematical definition of line. 

Example - if a kick off goes into R's end zone untouched, we place the ball so that the nose is just touching the 4 inch wide 20 yard line stripe where it is closest to R's goal line.  If A now commits two successive dead ball fouls such as false start, the ball eventually winds up so that the nose is just touching the 10 yard line stripe again where it is closest to A's goal line. 

Let's say the game ends regulation time in a tie.  The ball will be placed on the 10 yard line with the nose just touching the 4 inch wide stripe where it is farthest from B's goal line.

In both situations, we consider the ball to be on the 10 yard line, even though they are actually 4 inches apart.

So going back to the original post about onside kicks, mathematically speaking the plane of R's free kick line is the center of the 50 yard line stripe.

However, every player, coach, official and spectator accepts the 4 inch wide stripe as being the line.  Therefore, the comments about pepper and who cares and gravitational pull are probably much better than trying to explain "length but no breadth".

[AlUpstateNY]

However, every player, coach, official and spectator accepts the 4 inch wide stripe as being the line.  Therefore, the comments about pepper and who cares and gravitational pull are probably much better than trying to explain "length but no breadth".

Your presumption, "every player, coach, official and spectator accepts the 4 inch wide stripe as being the line", is simply wrong, and worse is actually pure black pepper in volume insufficient to qualify as a mole hill.

You might ask yourself, "Where is the goal"?, which should be answered, "On the field side of the OPPONENT'S (4 ") goal line", which then retreating in exact 10 yard increments all the way to K's Free Kick line, would place the measurement on the far side of that Free Kick 4" line, facing the opponent's goal.

You might consider, the object of the game is to score, which requires crossing the OPPONENT'S goal.  How far you have to go, from your own goal to accomplish that, is immaterial.

[prab]

Your presumption, "every player, coach, official and spectator accepts the 4 inch wide stripe as being the line", is simply wrong, and worse is actually pure black pepper in volume insufficient to qualify as a mole hill.

Good Grief!!

OK I'll rephrase it.  Every player, coach, official (except for AlUpstateNY) and spectator accepts the 4 inch wide stripe as being the line.  This obviously refers to all yard lines EXCEPT the two goal lines!

Read the post again. It clearly states that the 2 goal lines meet the mathematical definition of line.  Whereas the rest of the "yard lines" do not. 

[Atlanta Blue]

You might ask yourself, "Where is the goal"?, which should be answered, "On the field side of the (4 ") goal line", which then retreating in exact 10 yard increments all the way to K's Free Kick line, would place the measurement on the far side of that 4" line, facing the opponent's goal.

The problem being: that "line" is 60 yards from the goal you are facing, but only 39 yards and 8 inches from the goal you are defending.

The 50 yard "line" is actually halfway between the edges of that 4" wide stripe that everyone sees as the 50.  If the goal "lines" are exactly 100 yards apart, and the major yard "lines" are marked 10 yards from each of those lines going toward the middle of the field, it would be impossible for the 50 to be either the right or left edge of the actual 50 yard "line".  By definition, the actual 50 yard "line" would be down the middle of that 4" white stripe in order to be 50 yards from either goal line.

OK, for most purposes, this is "close enough".  The one exception is a kickoff.  If the 40 yard "line" is the goal line side of K's 40, and the field is marked as described above, 10 yards would be the MIDDLE of the 4" wide stripe designating the 50, not either edge.

Good luck calling that one.  For all practical purposes, if the ball touches any part of the 4" line that designates the 50, it's gone far enough.  And who can say it didn't?

[Rulesman]

It's the off season. We have a National Champion, a Super Bowl winner, and spring practice hasn't started yet. You guys have too much time on your hands! 

[prab]

The problem being: that "line" is 60 yards from the goal you are facing, but only 39 yards and 8 inches from the goal you are defending.

The 50 yard "line" is actually halfway between the edges of that 4" wide stripe that everyone sees as the 50.  If the goal "lines" are exactly 100 yards apart, and the major yard "lines" are marked 10 yards from each of those lines going toward the middle of the field, it would be impossible for the 50 to be either the right or left edge of the actual 50 yard "line".  By definition, the actual 50 yard "line" would be down the middle of that 4" white stripe in order to be 50 yards from either goal line.

OK, for most purposes, this is "close enough".  The one exception is a kickoff.  If the 40 yard "line" is the goal line side of K's 40, and the field is marked as described above, 10 yards would be the MIDDLE of the 4" wide stripe designating the 50, not either edge.

Good luck calling that one.  For all practical purposes, if the ball touches any part of the 4" line that designates the 50, it's gone far enough.  And who can say it didn't?

EXACTLY!!!

[Curious]

Around here (especially in some of the more "economically challenged" areas) we're fortunate to have ANY lines; so width of lines are not high on our list of concerns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bama_stripes]

It's the off season. We have a National Champion, a Super Bowl winner, and spring practice hasn't started yet. You guys have too much time on your hands! 

Um... we start HS baseball next Monday.  Outdoors.

[Ralph Damren]

Um... we start HS baseball next Monday.  Outdoors.

The snowmobile races for this weekend - outdoors - have been postponed - too cold.
15,873 X 7 = 111,111. The square root of 69 = 8 something. Pi = 3.1416..... the new rules will be out shortly....

    Editor's note : Last day of this as ole' Dell doesn't go home with me and I don't go into the office on Saturday.
The Red Sox equipment truck has left Fenway (Mainer's version of Ground Hog Day) ,so pennant fever may shortly arrive....

[VALJ]

The Red Sox equipment truck has left Fenway (Mainer's version of Ground Hog Day) ,so pennant fever may shortly arrive....

2015 will be my Cubs' year.  Back to the Future even said so!

[bkdow]

Oh look, snow is melting!   

[AlUpstateNY]

The problem being: that "line" is 60 yards from the goal you are facing, but only 39 yards and 8 inches from the goal you are defending.

The 50 yard "line" is actually halfway between the edges of that 4" wide stripe that everyone sees as the 50.  If the goal "lines" are exactly 100 yards apart, and the major yard "lines" are marked 10 yards from each of those lines going toward the middle of the field, it would be impossible for the 50 to be either the right or left edge of the actual 50 yard "line".  By definition, the actual 50 yard "line" would be down the middle of that 4" white stripe in order to be 50 yards from either goal line.

OK, for most purposes, this is "close enough".  The one exception is a kickoff.  If the 40 yard "line" is the goal line side of K's 40, and the field is marked as described above, 10 yards would be the MIDDLE of the 4" wide stripe designating the 50, not either edge.

Good luck calling that one.  For all practical purposes, if the ball touches any part of the 4" line that designates the 50, it's gone far enough.  And who can say it didn't?

OK it is winter, there's way too much snow on the ground and more expected, so I'll bite.  With the firm understanding that this is "Much ado about nothing", allow me to question your logic.  I hope we agree that a properly marked field is 300 feet BETWEEN 2 (goal) lines, which would place the dead center of the field 150 feet (1800 inches) between those lines.

NF: 1-2-3-j, advises, "Each goal line mark shall be entirely in its end zone so the edge toward the field of play and its vertical plane is the actual goal line" (and therefore the boundry from which the 300 feet is measured).

NF: 2-26-5, further advise, "The LTG is the yard line established when a new series (1st down) is awarded.  .... the LTG is 10 yards in advance  of the foremost point of the ball when placed for the first down of the series".

NF: 2-24-3, "A free-kick is any kick which puts the ball in play to start a free kick down......".

NF: 2-7-1, "A down is action that starts with a legal snap, or when the ball is kicked on a free kick".

NF: 6-1-1(a), "K's free-kick line is: (a) Its 40-yard line for a kickoff".

So, in essence, the 4 inch wide stripe(s) at 10 yard intervals across the entire 300 foot football field, are simply 4 inch stripes (essentially designed for esthetics and administrative assistance) they are NOT specific "Lines" for measuring purposes designating exact distances.

NF: 2-25-1, The line of scrimmage for each team is a vertical plane through the point of the ball nearest the team's goal line.  It is determined when the ball is marked ready for play....."

You might consider that in effect, there are actually duplicate 20, 40 and 50 "yard lines", each specifically measured from the goal line each  team is defending, outwards.   

The game of football has long been played under a "general PRESUMPTION", that all marking lines are actually straight, squared and properly marked, that has served the game well since its inception.