NFL tinkers with PAT kick, should we......

[Ralph Damren]

NFL owners voted to move PAT out to the 15 (and equivalent to a 32 yard field goal) to take the "automatic" away. Is this an issue at our level ?

The only proposal I can recall addressing this  came a few years ago and fizzled quickly. The primary intent was to reduce the length of games, and it went sorta' like this:

  A touchdown would be worth 7 points and be directly followed by a kickoff, OR you could take 6 points
  and try for a 2 point run/pass PAT.

Opinions, anyone......

[Rulesman]

How "automatic" are PATs for high school age and below? Other than AB's guys () my guess is the stats will show most have a hard enough time making them from the 10. Leave it alone. There are more efficient ways to control the length of games. Unfortunately, thus far the rules committee has failed to grab that low hanging fruit.

[Bwest]

In my experience PATs are by no means automatic at the high school level. I wouldn't mind adding the new rule (for the NFL) that turnovers on tries remain live.

[bama_stripes]

NFL owners voted to move PAT out to the 15 (equivalent to a 32 yard field goal) to take the "automatic" away. Is this an issue at our level ?

Not at all.

BTW, I found out during a spring game that one of our local schools will use a female PK this fall.  She's not bad, & supposedly has a range of 40 yards.

[Atlanta Blue]

How "automatic" are PATs for high school age and below? Other than AB's guys () my guess is the stats will show most have a hard enough time making them from the 10. Leave it alone. There are more efficient ways to control the length of games. Unfortunately, thus far the rules committee has failed to grab that low hanging fruit.

We missed one last year, going 46 for 47.  In a blowout game, I let my JV kicker have one.  It was a freezing cold night and he had been standing around all night.  He didn't tell me he couldn't feel his feet!  He shanked it, only one we missed all year (he was 7 for 7 in Varsity games before that night).  We were 4 for 5 on 2 pt tries.  Our opponents were 9 for 12, 1-4 on 2 pointers.

We also missed one in 2013, the very first one of the year.  Made every one after that.  The kid that missed that one just made the Illinois team as a walk on.  Our opponents, were 24-27 that season.  We were 5 for 5 on 2 pointers that year, one of which was a bad snap that the holder picked up and ran in!

[AlUpstateNY]

Every now and then it's good to remember that football has 3 separate and distinct sets of "similar only" rules to account for the dramatic differences in the age, and skills, of the participants. Often rule and/or mechanics adjustments at one level are helpful at other levels, BUT NOT ALWAYS.

[Ralph Damren]

WOW, AB, you outscored your opponents last year 366-107 (excluding FGs & safety) ; did any  come your way?

Kicks are far from automatic in Maine (must be the gravitational pull + frostbitten toes), so a rule change is not needed. One thing lost in the NFL change is the ability to run a fake kick - unless you do it from the
15 yardline.

[Atlanta Blue]

did any  come your way?

Went 12-2.  We lost in the state semi-finals to the eventual state champion.  Finished 4th overall, as our other loss was to the other semi-final loser.

[bigjohn]

I think they should make a running TD worth 6 points as opposed to the passing touchdown being a 8 pointer in NFHS rules.

[bkdow]

Not an automatic point on the schools that I officiate.  I wouldn't change it.

[Ralph Damren]

I think they should make a running TD worth 6 points as opposed to the passing touchdown being a 8 pointer in NFHS rules.

Don't laugh, Bigjohn, several years ago a proposal came in that would vary the points depending on the distance of the score. As I recall, it went 'sorta like:
   TD from inside 10 = 5 pts.
   TD 11 to 20 = 6 pts.
   TD 21 to 40 = 8 pts
   TD from 40 & out = 10 pts.
   All defensive/kick return TDs = 10 pts
   FGs from outside 30 yards & any dropkicked FGs = 4 points
 As I recall, we  for a while and quickly moved on.....

[FLAHL]

As I recall, it went 'sorta like:
   TD from inside 10 = 5 pts.
   TD 11 to 20 = 6 pts.
   TD 21 to 40 = 8 pts
   TD from 40 & out = 10 pts.
   All defensive/kick return TDs = 10 pts
   FGs from outside 30 yards & any dropkicked FGs = 4 points
 As I recall, we  for a while and quickly moved on.....

Sounds like somebody has been playing too much fantasy football.

No reason to consider changing PAT rules in FL. For a few, it's automatic. For many more, it's an adventure.

[prab]

In our area middle school and youth leagues give one point for run or pass trys and 2 points for kick trys.  We wind up with some funny final scores sometimes.

[ncwingman]

I don't see the location of the try moving, however they did also change the rule regarding defensive scoring -- namely, it matches the NCAA rule now that the defense can gain possession and try to score after a blocked kick, fumble or interception. Fed rules are the only ones that keep the ball dead as soon as the defense gains possession, and I can see that changing in the near future.

[Tom.OH]

I don't see the location of the try moving, however they did also change the rule regarding defensive scoring -- namely, it matches the NCAA rule now that the defense can gain possession and try to score after a blocked kick, fumble or interception. Fed rules are the only ones that keep the ball dead as soon as the defense gains possession, and I can see that changing in the near future.

I believe Oregon has been running an experiment for the NFHS on this. Maybe Ralph has an update on it. I have talked to a few "experienced" R's who were not in favor of running 90 yards to the other goal line.

[Rulesman]

I have talked to a few "experienced" R's who were not in favor of running 90 yards to the other goal line.

Did that a couple of times in my college career. It ain't fun trying to get to the goal line before they do.   

[AlUpstateNY]

I don't see the location of the try moving, however they did also change the rule regarding defensive scoring -- namely, it matches the NCAA rule now that the defense can gain possession and try to score after a blocked kick, fumble or interception. Fed rules are the only ones that keep the ball dead as soon as the defense gains possession, and I can see that changing in the near future.

Don't understand the NCAA, NFL logic.  The opportunity to score an "extra point(s)" is a REWARD for scoring a TD.  What has the defense done to REWARD them scoring anything?  If they prevent the scoring team from adding their "extra point", isn't that their "reward"?

[bama_stripes]

Did that a couple of times in my college career. It ain't fun trying to get to the goal line before they do.   

That's what those young wing guys are for.   

[Johnponz]

The logic is simple. Bad things can happen when you put the pigskin on the carpet. Also it adds a little more excitement.

[Rulesman]

That's what those young wing guys are for.   

My "young" wing guys had deceptive speed. Both were slower than they looked. I loved 'em anyway. 

[FLAHL]

My "young" wing guys had deceptive speed. Both were slower than they looked. I loved 'em anyway. 

Great line Rulesman! 

[Ralph Damren]

I believe Oregon has been running an experiment for the NFHS on this. Maybe Ralph has an update on it. I have talked to a few "experienced" R's who were not in favor of running 90 yards to the other goal line.
[/quote
    Oregon ran this as an experimental rule for two years several years ago:
  (1) In the first year, went to the floor and failed to pass by one vote. A video was shown where, in a championship game and trailing 27-0, the PAT was blocked and returned for a 2 pointer.Fans went wild , the players acted like they just won the Super Bowl and the tired ole' white hat appeared to run out of steam at midfield.
  (2) In the second year, a play had occurred in a NCAA game where after a blocked PAT, the kicker took off his helmet and threw it at the opponent returning the kick and tripped him up. The player was hit with a USC enforced on the kickoff but the PAT had ended. This muddied the waters and again the proposed rule made it to the floor but failed by several votes.
  (3) Maine's vote in both years was "nay".
  (4) No movement since to propose it again.

PS : Tom, it ain't just 'a running 90 yards to the other end...ya' gotta' then run 100 yards back for the upcoming kickoff (unless the period ended).

[VALJ]

My "young" wing guys had deceptive speed. Both were slower than they looked. I loved 'em anyway. 

Some of us resemble that remark all too well...

[HLinNC]

My son was recenty timed  by his coaches at 4.40 in the 40.  I immediately demanded a DNA test.

 

[VALJ]

They used an sundial the last time I ran the 40...

Honest truth here - we had a game I was working H on a 7 man crew a couple of years back.  I had floated down about 10 yards on a pass play as per our mechanics to about the B 35.  The pass was intercepted at about the B15 or so.  My S beat me to the goal line by about 15 yards...