Kick tack-on enforcement now only for fouls between the goal lines

[Morningrise]

6-3-13 now states "Penalties for all fouls between the goal lines by the kicking team other than kick-catch interference (Rule 6-4) during a scrimmage kick play (except field-goal attempts) in which the ball crosses the neutral zone" can be tacked on to where the dead ball belongs to B. (New language in bold.)

10-2-4 now contains the same new language - the tack-on option applies only to fouls between the goal lines - and applies to "a free kick play" as well.

However 6-1-8 does not have that new language. It still states that the tack-on option applies to "all fouls by the kicking team other than kick-catch interference (Rule 6-4) during a free kick play" - without regard to where the foul happens.

So: Team A's free kick is muffed by B22 at the B-1 and is rolling in B's end zone when A33 grasps and twists B44's face mask in the end zone. B22 then recovers the kick and returns it all the way to the A-35. Can Team B enforce the penalty from the dead-ball spot, or not? (By the way, time expired in the fourth quarter during the down.)

And also: Suppose instead of a free kick, it's a scrimmage kick on 4&10@B-45. Seems like this penalty is definitely not enforceable from anywhere but the previous spot anymore, correct? But if the foul occurred at the B-1 instead, Team B could tack it on. What is the rationale for that?

[Kalle]

Without having any inside info, I would guess that the change was missed in 6-1-8 and the change should apply on free kicks as well (wouldn't be the first time a change is not applied everywhere in the rules). I'm interested to know the rationale for this change, too.

[BlindZebra]

I'm interested to know the rationale for this change, too.

As am I!  This change, although minor, kinda screws Team B.  I understand that a foul in the endzone on kicks by A very rarely happen, but when it does, it can potentially restrict B from tacking on a foul...Major or Minor.

[bossman72]

Can someone give an example of a foul in the end zone by Team A on a kick?  I'm failing to see why this was even a change.

[Fatman325]

Where did you see this wording? I haven't found it yet.
Thanks

[Morningrise]

Can someone give an example of a foul in the end zone by Team A on a kick?  I'm failing to see why this was even a change.

I gave an example of shenanigans happening in B's end zone while a muffed kick is bouncing around in there. But here's an even more plausible one:

4th and 10 at the A-5. Team A's punter kicks from his own end zone and Team B returns the ball to the A-35. Before the kick, tackle A77 held an opponent a) in the end zone, or b) at the A-1. And also, time expired in the fourth quarter, and Team B was trailing by 3, and B's kicker is no good from 45+ yards.

Where did you see this wording? I haven't found it yet.
Thanks

See the "2015 Rule Book" stickied post.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/c-82-football.aspx

[Fatman325]

Thank You and a good heads up on the new language/AR/Rule change/Editorial change.

[TXMike]

I had been scratching my head trying to figure out why this change was made.  Fellow at the clinic today pointed out something that is logical and may explain the editorial change.

6-1-8 and 6-3-13 gave specific enforcement spot options for Team A fouls on free kicks and  most scrimmage kicks.  The spots were previous spot and spot where subsequent dead ball belonged to Team B, at Team B's option.  This would mean that if we had a hold by A in his own EZ on a scrimmage kick play, B would not have the ability to earn 2 points for the safety. They could only have the prev spot enforcement or the tack on.  By adding the "between the  goal lines" language, B can now get the 2 point safety.  That makes sense. 

I still think there is a glitch in the language since there might be times when the foul by A is in B's EZ and B might not be able to take advantage of the penalty yardage. 

[bossman72]

I still think there is a glitch in the language since there might be times when the foul by A is in B's EZ and B might not be able to take advantage of the penalty yardage. 

Exactly.  If B is down late in the game by 6 and they get a return, and Team A holds in their own end zone, B is going to want to tack that on and not take the safety.

[Andrew McCarthy]

This change illustrates the main two issues with the way "editorial" changes are being made these days: they aren't well thought out and they aren't explained.

[Kalle]

With the 2014 rules, would anybody not have given a safety for a team A hold in the end zone during a scrimmage kick? I know I would have. I'm not sure if the rule change was needed, if the point was to allow for the safety, and if it was, why not simply add the usual exception for fouls in the team A end zone.

[cperezprg]

Something is escaping me, I don't see why it isn't a safety (or tack-on) with 2014 rulebook wording. Team B already had the chance to decide which option is better for them.

10-2-2-b Fouls by the offensive team behind the neutral zone. For the following
fouls committed by the offensive team behind the neutral zone, the penalty
is enforced at the previous spot: illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block
and personal fouls (Exception: If the foul occurs in Team A’s end zone the
penalty is a safety.). However, see Rule 6-3-13 for offensive team fouls
during scrimmage kick plays.

Team B can always choose enforcement at previous spot. Even if the subsequent ball doesn't belong to B, it's still a safety with 2014 rulebook.

I'm missing something but don't know what.

[Bwest]

Something is escaping me, I don't see why it isn't a safety (or tack-on) with 2014 rulebook wording. Team B already had the chance to decide which option is better for them.

10-2-2-b Fouls by the offensive team behind the neutral zone. For the following
fouls committed by the offensive team behind the neutral zone, the penalty
is enforced at the previous spot: illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block
and personal fouls (Exception: If the foul occurs in Team A’s end zone the
penalty is a safety.). However, see Rule 6-3-13 for offensive team fouls
during scrimmage kick plays.

Team B can always choose enforcement at previous spot. Even if the subsequent ball doesn't belong to B, it's still a safety with 2014 rulebook.

I'm missing something but don't know what.

It says to look at 6-3-13 for the enforcement of fouls during scrimmage kick plays, implying that 6-3-13 supersedes this rule when applicable. 6-3-13 says that fouls during scrimmage kick (where the ball crosss the neutral zone...etc.) plays can only be enforced at the previous spot or subsequent dead ball spot.

[BlindZebra]

It says to look at 6-3-13 for the enforcement of fouls during scrimmage kick plays, implying that 6-3-13 supersedes this rule when applicable. 6-3-13 says that fouls during scrimmage kick (where the ball crosss the neutral zone...etc.) plays can only be enforced at the previous spot or subsequent dead ball spot.

6-3-13 does supersede this rule because we are in a scrimmage kick and not a normal scrimmage down.  However, when B elects to enforce the penalty at the previous spot is how the safety comes into play per 9-3-3-b since the foul was behind Team A's goal line.

[Bwest]

6-3-13 does supersede this rule because we are in a scrimmage kick and not a normal scrimmage down.  However, when B elects to enforce the penalty at the previous spot is how the safety comes into play per 9-3-3-b since the foul was behind Team A's goal line.

I suppose now it's just made explicitly clear that this is a safety. I'd expect a further change in the near future addressing fouls by team A in B's end zone during a kick.

[sj_31]

Did they fail to updated 2015 10-2-2-VI to reflect this change?

[NCAA-SJ]

I know I'm late to the party here, but I do not think this change has anything to do with the safety/no safety issue.  'Enforced' at the previous spot simply means, in my mind, that the previous spot is simply the 'basic spot' for enforcement (note: they never say enforcement 'spot') and all subsequent rules pertaining at that point still apply...ergo, safety for foul by A in A's EZ are not affected.
What I do think is the push behind this is not to extend the LOS for touchbacks.  We don't tack on for 6-3-11 anymore, so I see this as a consistency for that.  Touchbacks want to start at the 20 for scrimmage kicks and 25 for free kicks.  That's my take.