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Author Topic: Play Situations  (Read 239652 times)

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Fatman325

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #275 on: April 14, 2016, 12:33:49 PM »
Quote from: BrendanP on April 08, 2016, 08:54:54 AM
Since a sliding player is now defenseless, would this now be targeting? This was the only play I could recall off the top of my head. Also, if the answer to the previous question is yes, under the new rules, is this a play replay could create a foul for if its not called on the field?



At full speed on the field, it'll probably be called, but not sure whether or not I'd overturn it depending on the angles we had.

I would say that this is a TGT foul. Error on the side of safety and give the QB the benefit of the doubt on the timing of the slide.
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Offline Etref

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #276 on: April 14, 2016, 02:17:45 PM »
The body of the LB goes across and takes the helmet off. No way it is TGT. With the new rule PF only
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Offline #92

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #277 on: April 15, 2016, 07:14:53 AM »
Looks very incidental to me, no?

But if not TGT, which PF would you call then?
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Fatman325

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #278 on: April 15, 2016, 07:47:38 AM »
This angle may not be the best to view the contact by 99. Other TV angles show that the helmet was the first point of contact, it was forcible, and would have to be TGT or nothing. Last year no foul, This year TGT.
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Offline #92

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #279 on: April 15, 2016, 08:21:18 AM »
What's understood by "forcible"? Do they mean "more than a normal tackle would warrant"? Or just "with force", as you would expect football players to play every down?

More importantly: "No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent [...]". Did he mean to go for the head? If not, the "targetting" aspect is not there, so it's not TGT. Correct?
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Fatman325

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #280 on: April 15, 2016, 10:38:23 AM »
I will do my best to offer my understanding. I am not an English major by any means.
Forcible= Significant contact. Webster uses words like physical force or violence. Also included is Powerful.

As for the concept of trying to understand a player's intent I don't think I can do that. If forcible or significant contact to the head and neck of a defenseless player occurs it's a foul regardless of intent. I get what the notes say about "Taking aim... that goes beyond a normal tackle." but I am not good enough to try and interpret the tackler's actions at full speed. Also the directive from above is to call it and get the head hits out of the game.

Great play for discussion
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Offline BrendanP

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #281 on: April 15, 2016, 12:03:31 PM »
I honestly don't think there was any ill intent and that this was a wrap up tackle gone wrong. Now that didn't stop many of my fellow Michigan Men from squawking that this should have been targeting, but I would say as to the question of intent above, that the word "target" means just that: to take aim at something for attack according to dictionary.com.

I guess my question is why the onus is completely on the defender to avoid the head or neck area. If QB#15 hadn't slid, he would have been tackled from behind there and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I can't help but wonder how many players are being coached to move their head specifically to draw a targeting foul since the hitee is absolved of any responsibility for avoiding contact.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #282 on: April 15, 2016, 12:30:00 PM »
Quote from: BrendanP on April 15, 2016, 12:03:31 PM
I can't help but wonder how many players are being coached to move their head specifically to draw a targeting foul...
You can't be serious.
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Fatman325

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #283 on: April 15, 2016, 01:41:29 PM »
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Offline BrendanP

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #284 on: April 15, 2016, 03:44:42 PM »
Quote from: Rulesman on April 15, 2016, 12:30:00 PM
You can't be serious.

Well we did add a runoff because players were faking injuries.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #285 on: April 15, 2016, 04:10:29 PM »
Quote from: BrendanP on April 15, 2016, 03:44:42 PM
Well we did add a runoff because players were faking injuries.
Now I know you're not serious. You can't stay on one subject without drawing something entirely unrelated into the discussion. What does "faking an injury" have to do with "coaching players to move their head specifically to draw a targeting foul? ???
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Offline Etref

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #286 on: April 16, 2016, 11:09:36 AM »
We need a troll emoji!!!!
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #287 on: April 16, 2016, 03:16:46 PM »
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"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline scrounge

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #288 on: April 16, 2016, 08:41:08 PM »
Quote from: BrendanP on April 15, 2016, 12:03:31 PM
I can't help but wonder how many players are being coached to move their head specifically to draw a targeting foul since the hitee is absolved of any responsibility for avoiding contact.

What other strange and fanciful fantasies do you find your compelled to wonder about?

Never mind.
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pjsaul

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #289 on: April 17, 2016, 12:46:06 PM »
As a Michigan Man, I have learned to be weary of anyone who uses the term "Michigan Man" non-ironically.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 12:48:24 PM by pjsaul »
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Offline BrendanP

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #290 on: April 17, 2016, 10:05:59 PM »
Quote from: Etref on April 14, 2016, 02:17:45 PM
The body of the LB goes across and takes the helmet off. No way it is TGT. With the new rule PF only

Which new rule is this? Is it the intent portion for replay or something else?
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #291 on: April 18, 2016, 08:07:53 AM »
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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #292 on: April 18, 2016, 08:37:41 AM »
A sliding ball carrier being defenseless doesn't mean it's a PF to hit him now, it just means you could have targeting. If it wasn't a PF last year, and it's not targeting, it's not a PF this year either. That would be like saying its a PF to hit a receiver in the process of making a catch just because he's defenseless. Obviously that's not a foul, so why would this be a foul?
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Offline justaLJ

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #293 on: April 19, 2016, 11:47:36 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if we get guidance / philosophy similar to hits near the sideline.  On sideline hits, the ball carrier must have a foot down in the white or clearly giving himself up heading OOB for a PF UNR or late hit foul.

In the sliding QB play here, no TGT IMO, and the lateness of the slide puts the ball carrier at risk of receiving a legal hit, which I think we have here.  If that player started his slide even a second earlier, that would give the defender enough time and distance to recognize and avoid contact.  If he didn't, then we have a PF late hit / piling on, same as always. 

Regarding the helmet coming off, we've all seen wrap up tackles on RBs or WRs where a helmet comes off and there was no FMM.  It does happen, and this is still a contact sport.  If player protection is the goal for the sliding ball carrier, coach the players to get down earlier.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 11:49:22 AM by justaLJ »
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Offline BlindZebra

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #294 on: April 20, 2016, 11:19:24 AM »
Quote from: justaLJ on April 19, 2016, 11:47:36 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if we get guidance / philosophy similar to hits near the sideline.  On sideline hits, the ball carrier must have a foot down in the white or clearly giving himself up heading OOB for a PF UNR or late hit foul.

In the sliding QB play here, no TGT IMO, and the lateness of the slide puts the ball carrier at risk of receiving a legal hit, which I think we have here.  If that player started his slide even a second earlier, that would give the defender enough time and distance to recognize and avoid contact.  If he didn't, then we have a PF late hit / piling on, same as always. 

Regarding the helmet coming off, we've all seen wrap up tackles on RBs or WRs where a helmet comes off and there was no FMM.  It does happen, and this is still a contact sport.  If player protection is the goal for the sliding ball carrier, coach the players to get down earlier.

Agree.  No TGT here.  Defender commits to the tackle when the QB decided to slide changing his strike zone.

First possession of the first overtime, A 4/5 at the B-20. Team A has 5 men in the backfield at the snap. QB A9 throws a pass towards A88 at the B-5.  B35 jumps the route and intercepts the pass.  In an attempt to clear a path for B35 to maximize the return, B88 blocks A80 in the back. B35 starts high stepping and lifts the ball above his head at the 50 but drops the ball. A20 picks up the ball and returns it for an apparent touchdown.
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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #295 on: April 20, 2016, 12:03:00 PM »
A's score is canceled since they fouled during the down. The fouls cancel since B got the ball with clean hands. It'll be Team B's ball 1st and 10 from the 25 to start the second possession series of the overtime. B35 is still charged with his UNS. If it's his second, he's gone.
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #296 on: April 20, 2016, 02:32:24 PM »
Quote from: Legacy Zebra on April 20, 2016, 12:03:00 PM
A's score is canceled since they fouled during the down. The fouls cancel since B got the ball with clean hands. It'll be Team B's ball 1st and 10 from the 25 to start the second possession series of the overtime. B35 is still charged with his UNS. If it's his second, he's gone.

Does rule 3-1-3-g-1-exception apply to the UNS distance penalty?
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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #297 on: April 20, 2016, 02:38:50 PM »
I say no. This is not a case of the UNS being declined, it is being canceled.
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Offline BlindZebra

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #298 on: April 27, 2016, 01:24:00 PM »
3/10 @ A2.  Team A leads 24-21 with 5 seconds remaining in the game.  QB A2 takes the snap and runs out the back of the end zone as time expires.  During A2's run, A72 clips B52 in the end zone.  Ruling?
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Play Situations
« Reply #299 on: April 27, 2016, 03:20:36 PM »
Result of the play is a safety, but that is not enough for team B, so we need to figure out what happens with the foul. Foul by team A in their own end zone during a running play results also in a safety. So, by taking the penalty, team B gets two points and team A is forced to kick off from A-20.
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