Play Situations

[Andrew McCarthy]

Where did you see that? My copy of 3-4-4-a says:

10-Second Runoff from Game Clock--Foul
ARTICLE 4. a. With the game clock running and less than one minute remaining
in either half, before a change of team possession if either team commits a foul that
causes the clock to stop, the officials may subtract 10 seconds from the game clock
at the option of the offended team.

I'm still using my book from last season.  Perhaps this is another editorial change they buried in there.

[BlindZebra]

Where did you see that? My copy of 3-4-4-a says:

10-Second Runoff from Game Clock--Foul
ARTICLE 4. a. With the game clock running and less than one minute remaining
in either half, before a change of team possession if either team commits a foul that
causes the clock to stop, the officials may subtract 10 seconds from the game clock
at the option of the offended team.

Interesting!  I didn't see the language change for that!  I was going to say the same thing about how the rule states specifically a player, but that changes it now.

3rd & 9 @ A-41. In the 2nd quarter with 0:45 on the clock and running. Both teams have one (1) timeout remaining.  QB A9 in shotgun formation takes the snap and attempts to pass the ball to RB A25 who is blocked to the ground by LB B55 at the A-45.  A9 gets pressured by B56 and rolls out to the HL side of the field.  Unable to find an open receiver A9 runs to the A-42 (entire body beyond LOS), and just before stepping out of bounds he tosses the ball forward and underhanded downfield to the A-44 where no team A player is in the area.  While A9 was running B21 held A88 at the A-49 in the middle of the field. After the play, B56 hits A9 late after he stepped out of bounds. The clock shows 0:33 when A9 steps out of bounds. Include clock status in your answer.  Ruling?

[Bwest]

Interesting!  I didn't see the language change for that!  I was going to say the same thing about how the rule states specifically a player, but that changes it now.

3rd & 9 @ A-41. In the 2nd quarter with 0:45 on the clock and running. Both teams have one (1) timeout remaining.  QB A9 in shotgun formation takes the snap and attempts to pass the ball to RB A25 who is blocked to the ground by LB B55 at the A-45.  A9 gets pressured by B56 and rolls out to the HL side of the field.  Unable to find an open receiver A9 runs to the A-42 (entire body beyond LOS), and just before stepping out of bounds he tosses the ball forward and underhanded downfield to the A-44 where no team A player is in the area.  While A9 was running B21 held A88 at the A-49 in the middle of the field. After the play, B56 hits A9 late after he stepped out of bounds. The clock shows 0:33 when A9 steps out of bounds. Include clock status in your answer.  Ruling?

Well let me take a stab:

I have a bunch of offsetting live-ball fouls. Illegal forward pass by A, holdings by B. Dead-ball personal foul on B56 will be enforced. A's ball 1/10 @ B44, clock will start on the snap (forward pass ruled incomplete). 25 second play clock.

[BlindZebra]

3rd & 9 @ A-41. In the 2nd quarter with 0:45 on the clock and running. Both teams have one (1) timeout remaining.  QB A9 in shotgun formation takes the snap and attempts to pass the ball to RB A25 who is blocked to the ground by LB B55 at the A-45.  A9 gets pressured by B56 and rolls out to the HL side of the field.  Unable to find an open receiver A9 runs to the A-42 (entire body beyond LOS), and just before stepping out of bounds he tosses the ball forward and underhanded downfield to the A-44 where no team A player is in the area.  While A9 was running B21 held A88 at the A-49 in the middle of the field. After the play, B56 hits A9 late after he stepped out of bounds. The clock shows 0:33 when A9 steps out of bounds. Include clock status in your answer.  Ruling?

A 1/10 @ B-44.  The two live-ball fouls offset so there is no 10-second subtraction. Enforce the dead-ball foul from the previous spot.  Clock on RFP since pass was to conserve time.

A 4/10 @A40.  A10's punt is in flight when B80 blocks A25 below the waist at the B30.  Th ball hits the ground at the B10 and bounces into the end zone untouched by Team B.

[Kalle]

A 4/10 @A40.  A10's punt is in flight when B80 blocks A25 below the waist at the B30.  Th ball hits the ground at the B10 and bounces into the end zone untouched by Team B.

1/10 for team B at B-10. PSKE with the PSK spot at B-20. What am I missing?

[BlindZebra]

1/10 for team B at B-10. PSKE with the PSK spot at B-20. What am I missing?

Not missing a thing!  It can be the simple ones that mess with your head.  I agree with that answer.

A 1/10 @ A48. QB A7 throws a pass downfield towards A86. While jockeying for position with B22 at the B29, A86 stepped on the sideline and leaps to catch the pass. A86 tipped the ball into the air and B21 subsequently intercepted the muffed pass at the B28 and returned it for a TD. During B21's return, B98 blocked A88 below the waist from the front at the A46. Video clearly shows that A86 stepped on the sideline and did not reestablish.  Ruling?

[TxSkyBolt]

Multiple questions with interspersed answers to different questions is confusing. Might I suggest separate posts for each play?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dvasques]

Not missing a thing!  It can be the simple ones that mess with your head.  I agree with that answer.

A 1/10 @ A48. QB A7 throws a pass downfield towards A86. While jockeying for position with B22 at the B29, A86 stepped on the sideline and leaps to catch the pass. A86 tipped the ball into the air and B21 subsequently intercepted the muffed pass at the B28 and returned it for a TD. During B21's return, B98 blocked A88 below the waist from the front at the A46. Video clearly shows that A86 stepped on the sideline and did not reestablish.  Ruling?

Incomplete pass
A 2/10 @ A-48

don't know what to do with the penalty that shouldn't have happened because the play should've been blown dead

[Kalle]

don't know what to do with the penalty that shouldn't have happened because the play should've been blown dead

Personal fouls should be enforced, so 1/10 for team A at B-37.

[BlindZebra]

Doesn't seem to be confusing Kalle, Bwest and dvasques.  You don't have to submit an answer...these are just here for discussion and reference to take back to your local group, crew, chapter, etc.  Submit your own if you want.  This is just to keep the board alive until these long 90 days pass and to help learn the new book that just came out.

A Try @ B-3. Team A scores a touchdown on the last play of the game to tie the score 28-28. The extra point conversion kick is blocked, and picked up by B26 at the B-2. B26 returns the ball to the A-10 where he is tackled by A88, who grabs the inside back of B26’s collar and immediately jerks him to the ground. B26 gets up and throws the ball at A88.

[Bwest]

A Try @ B-3. Team A scores a touchdown on the last play of the game to tie the score 28-28. The extra point conversion kick is blocked, and picked up by B26 at the B-2. B26 returns the ball to the A-10 where he is tackled by A88, who grabs the inside back of B26’s collar and immediately jerks him to the ground. B26 gets up and throws the ball at A88.

The foul for the horse-collar tackle is declined by rule. Try is no good. The UNS on B26 will be enforced from the succeeding spot in overtime.

[Bwest]

A 4/10 @ B15, field goal attempt. The snap sails over the holder's head and kicker A8 picks up the ball and runs around the end. During A8's run end A88 pulls defensive end B98 to the ground at the line of scrimmage freeing A8's run. A8 slides down at the B-10 where B24 is flagged for a late hit.

[dvasques]

A 4/10 @ B15, field goal attempt. The snap sails over the holder's head and kicker A8 picks up the ball and runs around the end. During A8's run end A88 pulls defensive end B98 to the ground at the line of scrimmage freeing A8's run. A8 slides down at the B-10 where B24 is flagged for a late hit.

Live ball - Dead ball fouls both enforced in order of occurrence
10 yards from LOS for holding by A making A4/20 @ B-25 then
Half the distance from B-25 making it
A 1/10 @ B-12,5

I know these are not quizes but I need to have my mistakes pointed because this whole studying the rulebook by situation is new to me...

[BlindZebra]

The foul for the horse-collar tackle is declined by rule. Try is no good. The UNS on B26 will be enforced from the succeeding spot in overtime.

Go one step further...what's the down and distance?

A 4/10 @ B15, field goal attempt. The snap sails over the holder's head and kicker A8 picks up the ball and runs around the end. During A8's run end A88 pulls defensive end B98 to the ground at the line of scrimmage freeing A8's run. A8 slides down at the B-10 where B24 is flagged for a late hit.

A 1/10 @ B12.5.  First UNS to B24 per 9-2-1-j?  I would try to make it one.

[Bwest]

Go one step further...what's the down and distance?

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be 1st and 10...

Live ball - Dead ball fouls both enforced in order of occurrence
10 yards from LOS for holding by A making A4/20 @ B-25 then
Half the distance from B-25 making it
A 1/10 @ B-12,5

I know these are not quizes but I need to have my mistakes pointed because this whole studying the rulebook by situation is new to me...

Alright then, I think this enforcement is a mistake although nothing you said is incorrect. Take another go at it.

[Morningrise]

A 4/10 @ B15, field goal attempt. The snap sails over the holder's head and kicker A8 picks up the ball and runs around the end. During A8's run end A88 pulls defensive end B98 to the ground at the line of scrimmage freeing A8's run. A8 slides down at the B-10 where B24 is flagged for a late hit.

Live-ball fouls do not offset dead-ball fouls.
First complete the live-ball penalty. Team B will decline it, because read the above posts for what happens if they accept it.
The result of the play is B's 1/10 @ B-10 since A8 did not reach the line to gain.
Now complete the dead-ball penalty. Team A will (after complaining and wondering why they can't still have the ball) accept it. Half the distance to the goal line. B's 1/10 @ B-5.

[dvasques]

I tend to forget the option for team B to decline penalties in clean hands

But if there was no foul by A during this play, the result would not be turnover on downs because the late hit would give A an auto first, wouldn't it?

[BlindZebra]

I tend to forget the option for team B to decline penalties in clean hands

But if there was no foul by A during this play, the result would not be turnover on downs because the late hit would give A an auto first, wouldn't it?

Dang! Missed that one too.

No it would not be auto first because the continuity of downs was broken.  Had this been live , then yes A would get a first. But because this was a dead ball foul, B has succeeded in keeping A from gaining a first down and are penalized from the dead ball spot.  Good question that you have to pay attention to detail.  Also the reason I hate taking tests!  On the field, this would have been a no brainer.

[dvasques]

Wow... now my brain exploded...

so a run for 3 yards in a 4/10 that has a late hit by B (or a team B sideline interference with contact) would not result in 1/10 for A after enforcement?!?! Only if it's a live ball foul?

I know this might sound incredibly basic but......

[dvasques]

AR 10-1-5-I

wow... this is life changing for me

[Morningrise]

AR 10-1-5-I

wow... this is life changing for me

Yup. Do the live-ball penalties first, figure out the succeeding spot, THEN do the dead-ball penalties. They happen in completely different phases of the game and never offset or influence each other.

(note: pro rules are different)

That said, if a foul happens *very close* to the end of the down, I believe most supervisors would want that to be a live-ball foul *when in question.* An example would be: On fourth down, A88 dives for a pass and gets speared by B99 a split-second before or a split-second after the pass hits the ground. I asked my supervisor whether I should "try to" make this a live-ball foul and he agreed. Anyone have a different philosophy?

But that's different from piling on or a late hit out of bounds. Even when it's bang-bang, those have got to dead-ball fouls because what makes them illegal in the first place is the deadness of the ball.

[Bwest]

AR 10-1-5-I

wow... this is life changing for me

Hey, that's why we do these.

The following play actually occurred, as ridiculous as it may sound.

A 4/20 @ A-40. A8 shanks his punt which lands at the B-45. A8, in disgust, runs down the field and kicks the ball off the ground at the B-40. The ball travels down field to the B-10 where punt returner B12 picks up the ball and returns it to the B-20 where he is tackled by the facemask.

[BlindZebra]

A 4/20 @ A-40. A8 shanks his punt which lands at the B-45. A8, in disgust, runs down the field and kicks the ball off the ground at the B-40. The ball travels down field to the B-10 where punt returner B12 picks up the ball and returns it to the B-20 where he is tackled by the facemask.

B 1/10 @ B35.  The illegal kick can be either previous spot or B's dead ball spot.  Since it only carries 10 yards, go with the facemask foul to give B 5 more yards added to the end of the run.

[Bitsy Arena]

is this not illegal touching too?

[BlindZebra]

is this not illegal touching too?

This is illegal touching!  B also has the option to take the ball at the touching spot which is what they would want.