Play Situations

[Andrew McCarthy]

Result of the play is a safety, but that is not enough for team B, so we need to figure out what happens with the foul. Foul by team A in their own end zone during a running play results also in a safety. So, by taking the penalty, team B gets two points and team A is forced to kick off from A-20.

If you're the Team A coach, how would you handle this kickoff?

[Legacy Zebra]

Tell my kicker to nudge it off the tee and fall on it immediately. By rule the kicker cannot be offside, so maybe  even have another player behind the tee and have the kicker start from beyond the restraining line and tap it back to him. Either way, all Team A has to do is put the ball in play and not foul and the game is over. Illegal touching is a violation, not a foul, so catching/recovering the kick illegally will not force another untimed down.

[BlindZebra]

Result of the play is a safety, but that is not enough for team B, so we need to figure out what happens with the foul. Foul by team A in their own end zone during a running play results also in a safety. So, by taking the penalty, team B gets two points and team A is forced to kick off from A-20.

Does 10-2-5-a-1 apply here?

[BrendanP]

Team A trails 28-27 with :05 remaining in the game. Team A is attempting the PAT and the kick is blocked and returned by Team B. Team B is flagged for holding during the return. Regardless of whether the Team B runner scores or not, the PAT is no good because of the flag and we move on, correct?

[Legacy Zebra]

Does 10-2-5-a-1 apply here?

No. 10-2-5-a only applies to downs that end in a touchdown. This down ends in a safety. Just like a live ball foul on a field goal, you either take the play or the penalty, not both.

[Legacy Zebra]

Team A trails 28-27 with :05 remaining in the game. Team A is attempting the PAT and the kick is blocked and returned by Team B. Team B is flagged for holding during the return. Regardless of whether the Team B runner scores or not, the PAT is no good because of the flag and we move on, correct?

Correct. The penalty for the hold is declined by rule since it was after a change of possession and B got the ball with clean hands. B's score is canceled since they foiled during the down. The try is over and we go to the kickoff.

[Kalle]

Tell my kicker to nudge it off the tee and fall on it immediately. By rule the kicker cannot be offside, so maybe  even have another player behind the tee and have the kicker start from beyond the restraining line and tap it back to him. Either way, all Team A has to do is put the ball in play and not foul and the game is over. Illegal touching is a violation, not a foul, so catching/recovering the kick illegally will not force another untimed down.

Wanna bet how many teams in real life would do this instead of executing a normal deep kickoff?

[BlindZebra]

No. 10-2-5-a only applies to downs that end in a touchdown. This down ends in a safety. Just like a live ball foul on a field goal, you either take the play or the penalty, not both.

Bingo!

[BrendanP]

4th and 4 for Team A at the A25. A40 punts, and B82 avoids the punt as the ball hits the ground and rolls. Seeing the ball's location near him, A20 shoves B15, causing B15 to touch the ball, at which point A1 recovers the ball.

[NVFOA_Ump]

4th and 4 for Team A at the A25. A40 punts, and B82 avoids the punt as the ball hits the ground and rolls. Seeing the ball's location near him, A20 shoves B15, causing B15 to touch the ball, at which point A1 recovers the ball.

B15's touch is the result of the block by A20, therefore forced touching (rule ref. 2.11.4.c) and the play continues as if there was no B touch (forced touching is ignored).  A1's subsequent "recovery" is therefore an illegal touching and the ball belongs to team B at the illegal touching spot 1st and 10.

[BlindZebra]

Houston play of the day:

3rd/goal for Team A from the Team B 8-yard line. A24 takes a handoff in the backfield from QB A10 and advances to the Team B 2-yard line, where he is contacted by B48 and fumbles the ball. The ball flies into the Team B end zone and is rolling in the end zone when B27 bats the ball out of the back of the end zone (no attempt to recover it) just before A88 dives in an attempt to recover the ball. Ruling including clock status?

[theunofficialofficial]

Okay I'll take a crack at this...


Impetus for the ball in the EZ is the fumble by A. Foul for batting in the end zone against B. Result of the play is a Touchback. Enforce 10 yards from the 20. 1st and 10 for B from the B-10. Game Clock - Snap. Play Clock - 25 seconds on the hack.

I'm fairly confident up to the enforcement. But that's one of the things I'm working on studying most right now.

[Legacy Zebra]

B can't keep the ball because they didn't get it before fouling. This is a foul during a running play by the team not in possession. Enforce half the distance from the basic spot which is the spot of the fumble since that's where the run ended. It will be 3rd and goal from the 1. Play clock at 25, game clock on the snap because of the touchback.

[ncwingman]

The question here is when does B gain possession of the ball... I believe (and this is where I might be wrong) that it's B's ball only when the ball becomes dead. Since the foul then occurred prior to B gaining possession, they did not gain possession with clean hands.

A would enforce the illegal batting from the previous spot (end of the run when the ball became loose), half the distance. It's A's ball, replay 3rd from B1. Clock starts on Ready, since it was enforced from the end of a running play.

[Kalle]

For those who wonder if IFAF rules are any different from NCAA rules, here is a difference. In IFAF the game clock starts on the ready, as IFAF has amended rule 3-3-2-d-1 to be in line with 3-3-2-d-3.

[Morningrise]

From another discussion a few rows down:

Free kick @ A-35. Team A trails with 0:09 remaining. A88 muffs the onside kick attempt at the A-46 a) while inbounds, b) while standing on the sideline. The ball bounces out of bounds.

From a preseason scrimmage the other day:

Team B attempts to substitute. Team A sees this, rushes to the line, and snaps the ball without all players getting set. An entering Team B substitute was still in Team A's backfield at the snap.

[psv]

"From a preseason scrimmage the other day:

Team B attempts to substitute. Team A sees this, rushes to the line, and snaps the ball without all players getting set. An entering Team B substitute was still in Team A's backfield at the snap."

False Start Team A.  They need to be set for at least one second regardless of what B is doing.

If they are set, Offsides Team B. 

Free kick @ A-35. Team A trails with 0:09 remaining. A88 muffs the onside kick attempt at the A-46 a) while inbounds, b) while standing on the sideline. The ball bounces out of bounds.

If I read this one correctly:
Team A = Kicking team.  In both cases we have a kick out of bounds because Team B never touched the ball. 

We dont have illegal touching because the ball went 11 yards (A35 -> A46).

Team B has several options: 
a) Penalize Team A 5 yards and re-kick.
b) Team B can take the ball 30 yards from the Team A restraining line (B 35)
c) 5 yards from the out of bounds spot and Team B keeps the ball.

yeah? 

[BlindZebra]

From another discussion a few rows down:

Free kick @ A-35. Team A trails with 0:09 remaining. A88 muffs the onside kick attempt at the A-46 a) while inbounds, b) while standing on the sideline. The ball bounces out of bounds.

From a preseason scrimmage the other day:

Team B attempts to substitute. Team A sees this, rushes to the line, and snaps the ball without all players getting set. An entering Team B substitute was still in Team A's backfield at the snap.

For the first scenario:
a) B 1/10 @ A46
b) KOB. B 1/10 @ A41

For the second scenario:
FST.  B is the only one that subbed so no matchup provided.  A never gets set so we shut it down.  Since FST is a dead ball foul, no DOF.

[Kalle]

For the first scenario:
a) B 1/10 @ A46
b) KOB. B 1/10 @ A41

Both are free kicks out of bounds untouched by team B, right? So team B has the full set of options in both cases and most likely will choose the five yard penalty added to the OOB spot. Now, in a), does the foul cause the clock to stop?

[Legacy Zebra]

Agreed. False start on A, no foul by B.

On the kickoff play, both of these are fouls for a fee kick out of bounds. In a, the clock starts on the touching by Team A because it is a legal touch and stops when the ball touches out of bounds. This would trigger a 10 second runoff since it was a foul before a change of team possession that caused the clock to stop and there was less than 1 minute left in the half. The game is over, Team B wins. In situation b, there is no runoff because the clock never started since the Team A player was not in bounds when he touched the kick. The ball is dead immediately upon being picked by Team A. Team B's ball at the A-41, 1st and 10 still with 9 seconds on the clock.

[BlindZebra]

Both are free kicks out of bounds untouched by team B, right? So team B has the full set of options in both cases and most likely will choose the five yard penalty added to the OOB spot. Now, in a), does the foul cause the clock to stop?

Yep.  Not paying attention.  A touched it when I was thinking B the entire time.  KOB in both situations.

This foul does not constitute a 10 sec runoff.  How did A gain an advantage by touching the ball causing the clock to stop then letting it go out of bounds?

[dvasques]

For those who wonder if IFAF rules are any different from NCAA rules, here is a difference. In IFAF the game clock starts on the ready, as IFAF has amended rule 3-3-2-d-1 to be in line with 3-3-2-d-3.

which rulebook is different, Kalle? I have the 2015, which is the one I can download on IFAF website, and it is exactly as NCAA

3-3-2-d-1 - touchback
3-3-2-d-3 - Team B is awarded a first down and will next snap the ball

Is there an updated IFAF rulebook that I can't find?

[BrendanP]

This situation applies to both NFHS and NCAA rules (Didn't want to start a whole new thread)

Team A trails 15-10, and has the ball 4th and goal from B7 with 2 seconds on the clock. Team A scores a touchdown and the clock reads zero, the score obviously now 16-15 with Team A as the apparent winner. After the covering official signals a touchdown, both the Team A bench rush the field in celebration, and the home crowd rushes the field to celebrate the victory. Irrespective of whether or not the try is required by rule, Team B wants the penalty enforced and the try attempted. Do we have UNS against the bench AND a UNS against the crowd, with the PAT at the 32, or just one big UNS against Team A in general and the PAT at the 17?

[Kalle]

Is there an updated IFAF rulebook that I can't find?

Go to the IAFOA website at www.myiafoa.org and you can find both the 2016 rule book and the rule change document with reasons for the changes.

[Kalle]

Team A trails 15-10, and has the ball 4th and goal from B7 with 2 seconds on the clock. Team A scores a touchdown and the clock reads zero, the score obviously now 16-15 with Team A as the apparent winner. After the covering official signals a touchdown, both the Team A bench rush the field in celebration, and the home crowd rushes the field to celebrate the victory. Irrespective of whether or not the try is required by rule, Team B wants the penalty enforced and the try attempted. Do we have UNS against the bench AND a UNS against the crowd, with the PAT at the 32, or just one big UNS against Team A in general and the PAT at the 17?

Well, if the rule set used in the game mandates that the try is not attempted if the scoring team is ahead in score, the request by team B is immaterial. Game over, head to the locker room.

In NCAA, the try must be attempted as team B can score and thus is still able to either tie or win the game. The actions by the crowd are not obviously unfair so there is only the foul against the team celebration on the field. Enforce 15 yards, PAT from B-17.