Author Topic: TASO Point Changes (Read 27599 times)

Looker44 · « **on:** August 13, 2015, 09:34:27 PM »

It was reported to us that TASO BoD has made changes to next year's (2016) point system:

1) Spring intrasquad scrimmages will not be eligible for points. Only Fall interschool Scrimmages counted for points.
2) College games will not be eligible for points.

It was said someone abused their scrimmage points by including college/HS spring practices he worked.

As a young official, my best work experience and advice was working spring games and fall scrimmages with experienced officials. Those are times the teaching can happen on the field vs classroom/sub-v work. So now, we get to go out work the scrimmage for free and get no points! TASO, why don't you tweak the rule vs throwing it out. For instance, One Point for Fall Scrimmages or a TASO Chapter requested coverage of Spring Scrimmages.

As far as the college work - I am not there, but those guys are getting more snaps, faster pace, learning more, then bringing that knowledge to Friday nights. Even chain crew observes positions, mechanics and keys thereby improving that chain official. I know these are not UIL games, but do you really want to draw this line in the sand.

Members need to let their TASO rep and local chapter know their thoughts before this is implemented for next year.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2015, 10:11:07 PM »

Couldn't agree more. Would like to understand the rationale for this decision. This from the same organization that gave what, 30 points for attending a State Meeting a few years back?

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blindref757 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14, 2015, 06:04:56 AM »

Donald Trump for TASO BOD! The UIL leaders and coaches are smarter, they're more cunning, and ruthless than our leaders. So they kick our butt every time. But if you elect Trump, he will make smart decisions. He will outsmart them, and Make TASO Great Again!

mishatx · « **Reply #3 on:** August 14, 2015, 05:13:09 PM »

Weren't scrimmages capped at 3 points, anyway? How much can you really "abuse" that?

Looker44 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 14, 2015, 10:21:26 PM »

Quote from: mishatx on August 14, 2015, 05:13:09 PM

Weren't scrimmages capped at 3 points, anyway? How much can you really "abuse" that?

That restriction was removed several years ago to encourage scrimmage participation

lpmx · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2015, 02:34:50 PM »

I don't see where it says anything about starting in 2016. I hope you are correct as I did plenty of spring scrimmages this year.

Here is a summary of actions from the July 23, 2015 TASO Football Division Board of Directors.

Testing period standardized - The annual football test will open on the last Monday in July and close the first Tuesday in November.

On-Line Clinic fee - Will remain the same as last year, $75

Points for Scrimmages - A member may only claim points for scrimmages when the scrimmage is between 2 different schools. Clarification: points for college scrimmages and scrimmages below the 7th grade level has never been approved by the Board.

Points for college games - starting in the 2015 season there will be no points awarded for college games, chains, or clock.

Games below the 7th grade level - The Board clarified that there are no points awarded for any game below the 7th grade level. This has been in effect since the Football Division returned to the Point System in 2004

Looker44 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2015, 05:12:17 PM »

LPMX, thanks for the clarification... So NOW the scrimmages I worked LAST spring will not count! A retroactive rule change! They are worked for free, away from other endeavors and family, have risk of injuries and now points are not counted.

fencewire · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2015, 08:41:59 PM »

so points pretty much are useless, might as well just determine 'experience' with years worked because apparently TASO feels that working 20 HS games yields a more experienced official than one that might work 10 HS and 10 games at a level above HS.

Also, spring inter squad scrimmages now mean nothing as far as Taso is concerned. Exactly why should someone that works college continue to be a TASO member? TASO doesn't even recognize his games as experience in calling football. I would suppose that they would like to see the college officials just sort of go away, since in their minds, they bring nothing to the table...

mishatx · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15, 2015, 10:48:21 PM »

Quote from: Looker44 on August 14, 2015, 10:21:26 PM

That restriction was removed several years ago to encourage scrimmage participation

Someone else told me that today. I got so used to just doing the three that my chapter "required" that I never noticed.

TexDoc · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2015, 05:52:47 PM »

To my knowledge, neither chapter that I've been a member of has ever allowed spring scrimmages to count toward scrimmage points. Why would they anyway? We work those purely to get out on the field in the off season.

As for college, why would those count? We are a high school officiating organization. Dedicate yourself to helping at the high school level and below and you reap the benefits. If you're working college games, fantastic.

I agree with TASO on these issues.

Legacy Zebra · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2015, 06:27:25 PM »

TexDoc, you're two statements seem to contradict. If points are to reward officials for helping at the high school level, why shouldn't high school spring scrimmages count? Does my service at a spring scrimmage not count as much as my service at a fall scrimmage?

For the record, I really don't care one way or the other about these particular issues. The one point for that spring scrimmage isn't going to make that much of a difference and if you're working college ball, you're probably not worried about high school points anyway.

TexDoc · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2015, 07:01:59 PM »

Spring scrimmages are typically just glorified practices. They really don't need to count as scrimmages worked. We work those if we can and many times those go without officials anyway.

You're right about college points. Should officials across the country get TASO points for working college? Kind of silly.

All just opinions and worth exactly nothing. I don't feel all that strongly about the scrimmage points, but I do have a strong opinion about college games being counted.

JasonTX · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2015, 10:26:03 PM »

I'm still trying to figure out the benefit of having X number of points? I've never had a coach call to request all D-1's for his game. Perhaps in other places, but around here the coach requests the best at each position and he don't care if it's a D-5 or whatever.

ETXZebra · « **Reply #13 on:** August 18, 2015, 06:35:29 AM »

Quote from: JasonTX on August 17, 2015, 10:26:03 PM

I'm still trying to figure out the benefit of having X number of points? I've never had a coach call to request all D-1's for his game. Perhaps in other places, but around here the coach requests the best at each position and he don't care if it's a D-5 or whatever.

Back in the old days points were an added benefit. When it came playoff time some coaches only wanted division 1 & 2's. Times have changed.

lpmx · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2015, 04:02:23 PM »

Sorry TexDoc I disagree with you over the spring scrimmages. The chapter tries hard to fill these scrimmages and filled over 96% of them.
I don't think any of them were glorified practices either. The coaches were very competitive with each other (offense vs defense) and were just as competitive as this past weekend scrimmages.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2015, 04:35:14 PM »

For years, I didn't turn in points for spring games because I didn't view them as "scrimmages." I thought the definition of a scrimmage was at least 2 schools. I think the last 2 or 3 years I turned in points for them, but only worked 1 a year.

I think the removal of college points is a mistake. Yes, we're a HS officiating organization, but that isn't the issue. College games are longer than varsity games and worked under the same rules and very similar mechanics. When I started in basketball years ago, TASO (then SOA) gave 3 points for a Juco game and 4 points for a college game. I'm not advocating that -- I think 2 points is fine. But if the idea of points is to show what level of experience (in general) a guy has, why would you not include it?

We give 2 points for 6-man varsity games and in many ways, there is a greater difference between that football and HS varsity 11-man than there is between college and HS varsity.

How many of you that have worked college games have spent a half hour of the pregame going over the rules differences with Texas HS? Mechanics differences? None of you. If its an issue, you say something like, "hey, don't forget, tonight the deep flanks...", finish your sentence, and its done. In all the 6 man games I worked, we went over the differences in detail.

TexDoc · « **Reply #16 on:** August 20, 2015, 03:35:34 AM »

Why don't we just do away with points altogether? When listing officials for coaches to select we can just list how many varsity games the official has worked, and maybe years of experience, and that's all (although neither of those nor points are indicators of an officials quality or ability). There are already requirements for educational clinic attendance and passing the test, so there is little reason to offer points for those. Those things are requirements. What do points and divisions really mean anyway? Points have been used too much in the past to incentivize members to work games (mostly sub varsity) or scrimmages and to attend state meetings. We are all independent contractors and have the right to agree to what games we will and will not work, so those that want to work loads of sv games or scrimmages can do so, and those that wish to not work those have every right not to. The load on TASO, to keep track of and verify points, would become much easier and require much less time to compile and keep records of resulting in less cost for TASO. If needed, in order to get games covered, require each official to work a certain number of sv games and scrimmages, on any date they choose, which is easily verified by the chapters.

Because a member can get to division 1 without ever having set foot on a varsity field, divisions really have little meaning. Wasn't there a lawsuit in Houston some years back where a guy got to D1 and never had a varsity games and sued for discrimination because he still wasn't getting varsity games? Seems he had some disability. I don't recall all of the details.

copedaddy · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2015, 08:26:29 AM »

I jokingly tell guys that I am D1AAA, since I have about 4 times the points to make D1, but in the end, it really doesn't mean I am worth a damn as an official. It just means that I have worked a crap load of games over the past 35 years.
We did away with the point system some years ago, but there was so much bitching about it that it was eventually brought back. I know to younger guys getting to D1 is a goal meant to be reach as soon as possible. To old farts like me points don't mean anything anymore. If we take coaches out of the mix for playoff selection, I think the point/evaluation system would work (to some degree). But when you can get 30 points a year in just education alone, something is wrong. That's a years worth of varsity games or 2 years of sub varsity work. Lets go to a three tier system.

Registered (aka rookie)--years 1-5
Certified (cocky)-- years 6-15
Fossil-- years 16-dead

hefnerjm · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2015, 09:56:48 AM »

Lets ask "why do we need points in the first place?"
Points (or any other measure) are used by coaches to pick crews.

Another solution is to do away with coaches involvement in assignment of officiating crews...All of that energy that TASO uses in keeping track of points can be reallocated to helping assigners and chapter secretaries to assign crews to every game that needs coverage.

If we are supposed to be impartial arbitrators of games, it seems like a clear conflict for coaches to have a say in which officials cover their games. I am completely open to hearing rationale if some of you older guys want to attribute this to me being new to Texas and there being something I dont understand about why coaches have any say whatsoever in this process.

This is like if Bill Belecheat had sway in picking which crew will overlook deflated balls.

TexDoc · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2015, 11:09:31 AM »

Quote from: hefnerjm on August 20, 2015, 09:56:48 AM

Another solution is to do away with coaches involvement in assignment of officiating crews.

Great idea, but we've

This "right" for coaches is so ingrained in Texas high school football, it would be the greatest death of a sacred cow you can think of.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2015, 11:39:23 AM »

Jim,

This stems from UIL requirement that coaches agree on officials. Some chapters have taken that to mean they actually pick. Others send them a crew and if they don't like something they can petition to have it changes.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #21 on:** August 20, 2015, 11:40:29 AM »

Tommy gets it...

At the July Football Board Meeting a change was made in what game points are awarded and what is not.
The Board passed the motion to no longer allow a member to earn points for officiating college games and college scrimmages.
There has been a lot of push back to me on this from our members who work college football. Most of these members do not need the points, but it’s the principal of the thing. To them it amounts to not being appreciated for the contribution they have made to TASO Football and continue to make. We are a Football Officiating Organization made up of mostly high school football officials but we are not solely a high school organization. The UIL is a high school organization. To take that stance is limiting. We have members who work College and NFL only, but have remained in TASO to give back to an organization that has meant so much to them. This organization was started by SWC officials and the Cotton Bowl Association and it has grown to what it is today. Regardless of what side of this issue you are on, please send your opinion to your district representative so they can give the Football Board some member feed back. The purpose was not to disrespect anyone. We appreciate our College and NFL guys who give so much back to TASO Football. But, for many the change does not seem consistent to how things were for many years. Looking forward to the members input.

hefnerjm · « **Reply #22 on:** August 20, 2015, 01:08:46 PM »

Here is another random newbie questions.

In my experience, when an organization's board of directors passes a motion, then that is the end of debate/discussion. The deal is done.

Is there some other non-standard bylaw in place here? Does the passing of a motion simply open a topic to discussion? What input from the members are they asking for here if the motion was already passed?

TxJim · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2015, 07:19:53 PM »

So where is the logic then when it comes to the springtime on-field clinics TASO endorses? Are they not all "intra-squad?

In regards to not allowing points for "intra-squad" scrimmages, somebody might want to check the TASO insurance policy. It stands to reason that the event is not TASO recognized, recognition coming in working for credit, then is stands to reason that anyone who works them is uncovered.

Also, way to give away good PR opportunities, TASO. We can recruit new members during these spring scrimmages. As we look at our membership numbers, every pick up we can get helps.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #24 on:** August 23, 2015, 10:45:38 PM »

Quote

It stands to reason that the event is not TASO recognized, recognition coming in working for credit, then is stands to reason that anyone who works them is uncovered.

TASO's insurance policy covers officials working non-TASO assignments, including pee-wee, 7 on 7, and maybe even college as long as the assigner is recognized/approved by the local TASO chapter.

Sporting events are not TASO recognized, whether TASO officials work them or not.