Change the signal for IF please!!!

[bigjohn]

The other night at a game I attended there were at least a dozen live ball false starts if you listened to the PA guy.  Why don't we have a different signal for illegal formation and why were these NFHS officials yelling 5 backs toward the sidelines and holding up 5 fingers ever time they had too few on the LOS??

[bbeagle]

Well, our announcer kept saying every 2 point conversion play was an incomplete pass, even when there was no pass on such plays.

(The same signal is used for an incomplete pass, and an unsuccessful try)

[Atlanta Blue]

The other night at a game I attended there were at least a dozen live ball false starts if you listened to the PA guy.  Why don't we have a different signal for illegal formation

Sounds like you need a smarter PA guy.  I know we do.  That rolling fist signal is still "Illegal Procedure" to him (and unfortunately, to a few officials I know).

and why were these NFHS officials yelling 5 backs toward the sidelines and holding up 5 fingers ever time they had too few on the LOS??

Because you can do it with one hand, where less than seven on the line is a mouthful and would take two hands.  Besides, it should be the FED rule anyway!

[VALJ]

Because you can do it with one hand, where less than seven on the line is a mouthful and would take two hands.  Besides, it should be the FED rule anyway!

Hear, hear.  Ralph, can we please bring this up for next year?  If the offense only has 10 players, and they only have 6 players on the LOS (and 4 backs) to block 7 B players, aren't they already at enough of a disadvantage?

[bkdow]

I don't like creating rules because those observing don't understand.

[FLAHL]

Hear, hear.  Ralph, can we please bring this up for next year?  If the offense only has 10 players, and they only have 6 players on the LOS (and 4 backs) to block 7 B players, aren't they already at enough of a disadvantage?

VA, I believe this one has been brought up multiple times.  The last time it failed, if I remember correctly, they said they weren't making changes when the only ones to benefit from the change would be officials!!!

[VALJ]

I know, but the rule punishes a team for playing shorthanded.  If they only have 10 on the field, they're already at a disadvantage.  and if B has 11 players, and they can't stop A who only has 10, then B doesn't deserve to have the play called back anyway...

[AlUpstateNY]

The other night at a game I attended there were at least a dozen live ball false starts if you listened to the PA guy. 

We do have different signals for False Start and Illegal Formation; False Start is always a Dead Ball foul and starts with signal # 7 followed by Signal # 19,

Illegal Formation (being a Live Ball foul) requires Signal # 19, alone.

Why are you listening to the PA Announcer?

[J12]

         I've seen it happened a lot where the call is Illegal Formation and upon getting the signal from the ref, the PA announcer says "False Start." Then inevitably someone in the stands will criticize "the refs" for not blowing the ball dead on a false start.

         On a scrimmage play where a flag is thrown at the snap, the play continues, and the signal is "Illegal Procedure" the only thing it can be is "Illegal Formation." Correct?

[fudilligas]

Heard a good one from the PA speaker the other night.  Ball on the B-5, no timeouts and the QB in shotgun formation.  You guessed it, QB spikes the ball at the B-10.  Penalty yardage administered from the spot of the foul and ball now on the B-15.  After announcing the 5 yard and LOD penalty, PA announcer now "corrects" himself and says that the rule must have been changed and that the penalty for the illegal forward pass is now 10 yards this year.  At least he got the LOD correct. 

[FLAHL]

       

         On a scrimmage play where a flag is thrown at the snap, the play continues, and the signal is "Illegal Procedure" the only thing it can be is "Illegal Formation." Correct?

Maybe I'm splitting hairs because they're both covered by the same rule (7-2-5), but it could also be illegal numbering - less than 5 on the LoS numbered 50-79 with the numbering exception not in effect or 2 players participating while wearing the same number.

[Atlanta Blue]

Maybe I'm splitting hairs because they're both covered by the same rule (7-2-5), but it could also be illegal numbering - less than 5 on the LoS numbered 50-79 with the numbering exception not in effect or 2 players participating while wearing the same number.

A distinction without a difference.  Still the same signal, so it doesn't really matter.  And it would only fit if the missing player is a 50-79 lineman.  I know most (all?) of the Illegal Formations I've ever seen, the missing person is almost always a receiver.  Linemen are too smart for that.   

[Ralph Damren]

The other night at a game I attended there were at least a dozen live ball false starts if you listened to the PA guy.  Why don't we have a different signal for illegal formation and why were these NFHS officials yelling 5 backs toward the sidelines and holding up 5 fingers ever time they had too few on the LOS??

Many years ago ,#19 was a catchall labeled "illegal procedure". It was decided that where the term "illegal procedure" couldn't be found anywhere in the rule book (neither could "personal foul"), we should change it. It was changed to "illegal formation". A few years later it was decided that #19 was for more than illegal formation and false start was added. We still have #26 available for creative minds.

[Ralph Damren]

VA, I believe this one has been brought up multiple times.  The last time it failed, if I remember correctly, they said they weren't making changes when the only ones to benefit from the change would be officials!!!

It has made it to the floor at least twice. Last time, the detractors asked : "Who benefits?" - answer : "Why the officials would!!" Someone then stated : "Teddy Roosevelt said that there ought to be at least seven men on the line and he didn't care about how many backs".  Maybe next year .

[VALJ]

It has made it to the floor at least twice. Last time, the detractors asked : "Who benefits?" - answer : "Why the officials would!!" Someone then stated : "Teddy Roosevelt said that there ought to be at least seven men on the line and he didn't care about how many backs".  Maybe next year .

Tell them "the offense that won't get a flag thrown for playing with only 10 players, since they're punishing themselves enough already"...

[bigjohn]

Like signal 1 has 1*

How about 19*

Hold up 5 fingers palm out! 


Or how about signal 28*  IP two arms, and IF just one arm like signal 20??

[AlUpstateNY]

Like signal 1 has 1*

How about 19*

Hold up 5 fingers palm out! 


Or how about signal 28*  IP two arms, and IF just one arm like signal 20??

Just a suggestion, but if you took the time to actually learn the signals, as is, you may not have such a hard time understanding them.

[bigjohn]

I understand them, most people don't. I am the guy in the stands telling the PA guy to learn the rules of the game!

[Ralph Damren]

When it comes time to add signals #17 & #26, regardless of what the rule reference is, I would prefer the ice hockey penalty shot signal (hands crossed above head) or NFL's illegal chuck (similar to PI only with one hand). Remember,too, there isn't a rule that sez' we need to stop at just 47 signals !

Any other suggestions,guys???

Internal signal : Umpire sNiCkErSrubbing belly =  supply has depleated, need to restock at next officials TO.

Thursday trivia : What is the CFL signal for a 1 point rouge??

[fudilligas]

Rouge---One hand raised above the head with 1 finger pointing in air

[Ralph Damren]

Rouge---One hand raised above the head with 1 finger pointing in air

      Congrats, Fudilligas, you win the Kupie Doll

Editor's note : The one finger pointing in the air should  not be the middle finger.

Follow-up trivia : A rouge is scored when a kick isn't returned out of their 20 yard end zone. What method can a CFL player use to prevent the dreaded rouge?

[Atlanta Blue]

What method can a CFL player use to prevent the dreaded rouge?

Run it out!

But I think you are going for: he can punt the ball back to A/K.

[Ralph Damren]

Run it out!

But I think you are going for: he can punt the ball back to A/K.

AB wins  two Kupie Dolls!!

Of course he could return it via run, as CFL allows kicks ran out of their end zone, but they could use a "return kick"...if things didn't look good on their run, they could just pull up and punt it back to the kicking team. .A drop kick on a return kick could score a field goal (along with the assistance of some C-5 hurricane winds). The return kick was in our code until 1965. There are no fair catches in the CFL, but our code allowed for a "return kick" after a fair catch via the free kick formation place or drop kick to score a field goal. In 1965, the rules guys decided to leave that part of the return kick rule in the game ......

 
   MY SPORTS BUCKET LIST :

           A RED SOX / CUBBIE WORLD SERIES

           OFFICIATE A FIELD GOAL SCORED FROM A FREE KICK

[Atlanta Blue]

   MY SPORTS BUCKET LIST :

           A RED SOX / CUBBIE WORLD SERIES

           OFFICIATE A FIELD GOAL SCORED FROM A FREE KICK

I've coached the latter, have no real desire to see the former, and will probably be dead long before it ever happens anyway!