Author Topic: Penalty Enforcement after score  (Read 2584 times)

Offline Badger1

  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Penalty Enforcement after score
« on: September 17, 2015, 04:26:15 PM »
Team A scores a touchdown and immediately after the score, Team A commits a deadball personal foul and prior to administration of the penalty Team A commits an Unsportsmanlike penalty.  My question is this:  Can Team B take one of the penalties on the try for point and enforce the other on the kickoff or do both penalties have to be enforced on either the try for point or both on the kickoff?  Also, rulebook reference.  Thank you.

Offline Atlanta Blue

  • *
  • Posts: 3781
  • FAN REACTION: +160/-71
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 05:06:50 PM »
Together or split them, doesn't matter.  They are two separate fouls, with two separate enforcements.

10-2-5

Offline biltheref

  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-0
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 10:13:12 PM »
Wouldn't that be 8-2-5?

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 507
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 10:21:50 PM »
The rule that states that dead ball fouls are enforced separately and in order of occurrence is 10-2-5. The fact that is was on a scoring play with possible enforcement on the try or kickoff is 8-2-5.

In this case, I believe the issue is the separate enforcement, therefore 10-2-5 is "more" relevant.

Offline Atlanta Blue

  • *
  • Posts: 3781
  • FAN REACTION: +160/-71
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 10:29:42 PM »
Wouldn't that be 8-2-5?
Also relevant, just not sure if that gives him all the support the poster needs to say they can enforce them separately.


Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2532
  • FAN REACTION: +309/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 09:36:04 AM »
Remember, guys, this wouldn't be effected by this year's dueling DB foul rule change, as they are both on the same team. Bitheref & AB provided the rule applications. An explanation to B's captain (within earshot of B coach) could be :

 "You've got two fouls on your opponent and they both will be enforced. You can have them :
     (1) Do the try from the try from your 33;
     (2) or, do the try from your 18 and kickoff from their 25;
     (3) or, kickoff from their 12 1/2.

(If I was coaching, I think I'd pick option #2)

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 507
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2015, 09:45:36 AM »
Remember, guys, this wouldn't be effected by this year's dueling DB foul rule change, as they are both on the same team.

I just had the thought about the "double" foul with A and B earn matching DBPFs, but I'm guessing that the new cancellation of penalty rule would prevent B from taking the penalty on the try and A taking the penalty on the kickoff.

Prior to this year, that could have happened though, right?

Offline Atlanta Blue

  • *
  • Posts: 3781
  • FAN REACTION: +160/-71
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2015, 09:55:33 AM »
(If I was coaching, I think I'd pick option #2)
Depends on the time and the score.  Before the try, I'm down by 4 with just a couple of minutes remaining.  The try isn't going to change anything, down by 4 or down by 5, I'm still going to need a TD to win.  In that case, I'm taking option 3.  Let them have the try, I want the ball as deep in their territory as I can on the kickoff, gives me a better chance at field position to score.

Or, before the try, I'm up by one with under a minute to play.  Now I'm taking both of them and moving the try back to the 33.  That one point means everything.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2532
  • FAN REACTION: +309/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 10:00:08 AM »
I just had the thought about the "double" foul with A and B earn matching DBPFs, but I'm guessing that the new cancellation of penalty rule would prevent B from taking the penalty on the try and A taking the penalty on the kickoff.

Prior to this year, that could have happened though, right?
Prior to this year, dueling DB fouls after a score was a train wreck, with the opponents of the first fouling team choosing first. Today, as long as the dueling DBs both occurred prior to the administration of the first, they merely cancel and on to the try @ the 3. Any l damage (ejections,etc) would still apply.

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 507
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 06:44:20 PM »
To change the scenario, lets say that B26 commits DPI against A80, but A80 still catches the ball and scores a TD. After the score, A80 then taunts B26.

The penalties could be enforced at different times, with B taking the penalty on the try and A on the kickoff (or vice versa), right?

Without a microphone, that would probably be fun to try to communicate to the PA guy in the press box.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2532
  • FAN REACTION: +309/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty Enforcement after score
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 10:00:21 AM »
To change the scenario, lets say that B26 commits DPI against A80, but A80 still catches the ball and scores a TD. After the score, A80 then taunts B26.

The penalties could be enforced at different times, with B taking the penalty on the try and A on the kickoff (or vice versa), right?

Without a microphone, that would probably be fun to try to communicate to the PA guy in the press box.
Yes ,A would choose first, followed by B's choice. Possibilities :

  A wants B's penalty on PAT; B wants A's there,too  = PAT @ 16 1/2.
  A wants B's penalty on PAT; B wants A's on KO = PAT @ 1 1/5, KO @ K's 25.
  A wants B's penalty on KO; B wants A's on PAT = PAT @ 18, KO @ R's 45.
  A wants B's penalty on KO; B wants A's there, too : PAT @ 3, KO @ K's 40.

This is as it was with "dueling DB fouls" until the rule changed this year. You can thank us for that.

Possible explanations to PA:

"After the smoke cleared, it is what it is...you don't need to know any more."

                                 or,

"Both penalties are enforced and by their captains' elections, the PAT will be at the ______ and the following kickoff will be at the ______________.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 10:13:48 AM by Ralph Damren »