Author Topic: DPI question (Read 18072 times)

Texas_Newbie · « **on:** October 02, 2015, 02:52:03 PM »

Team A with the ball at B20 yd line.

Team B DPI flag at the 10yd line. Spot foul? 1st & goal from the 10yd line?

DallasLJ · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2015, 02:59:05 PM »

Texas_Newbie · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2015, 02:59:46 PM »

Wonderful. Thank you for the quick response!

DallasLJ · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2015, 03:31:58 PM »

Quote from: Texas_Newbie on October 02, 2015, 02:59:46 PM

Wonderful. Thank you for the quick response!

DPI is a very special foul and you need to study the Rule carefully -- but the 1/2 distance rules to not apply to DPI until the ball is snapped at or inside the 2, or during a PAT. And, unlike the NFL, we do not penalize DPI in the EZ at the 1 yard line. Any DPI beyond the 2 Yd line (DPI at the 1 or in the EZ) is penalized by putting the ball at the 2. So, example. Ball snapped at the 20, DPI in the EZ -- 15 yards, 1st and 10 at the 5. Ball snapped at the 7, DPI at the 5, spot foul, 1st and goal at the 5. Ball snapped at the 12, DPI in the EZ - ball placed at the 2 by rule, 1st and goal.

Welpe · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2015, 03:53:38 PM »

Quote from: DallasLJ on October 02, 2015, 03:31:58 PM

Any DPI beyond the 2 Yd line (DPI at the 1 or in the EZ) is penalized by putting the ball at the 2.

You clarify it in your next statement but just to be clear: this is true only if the ball is snapped outside the 2 yard line and at or inside the B-17 yard line. Sorry to be pedantic.

psv · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2015, 10:00:42 AM »

The Penalty for DPI is spot of the foul or 15 yards and an automatic first down. The closest the ball can be placed is inside the 2. Once the ball is at the 2 or closer (or on a try) the penalty is 1/2 the distance to the goal.

The original example just happens to also be 1/2 the distance to the goal.

Osric Pureheart · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2015, 05:38:46 AM »

Think of it like this. To enforce it you get the ball, go to the previous spot, and start walking. Stop when you reach:

a). the spot of the foul
b). Team B's 2-yard line
c). 15 yards from where you started

Kalle · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2015, 06:52:31 AM »

Quote from: Osric Pureheart on October 06, 2015, 05:38:46 AM

Think of it like this. To enforce it you get the ball, go to the previous spot, and start walking. Stop when you reach:

a). the spot of the foul
b). Team B's 2-yard line
c). 15 yards from where you started

And for extra credit remember that in a) you spot the ball at the spot of the foul (or the nearest hash) and in b) and c) at the same lateral location as the previous spot

Kalle · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2015, 07:07:19 AM »

1/10 at A-20 on the left hash. A12 throws a legal forward pass to A88 at A-35, right hash. Just as A88 is about to touch the ball B99 grabs his arm and prevents him from catching the ball. The pass falls incomplete. Captain A12 requests that the ball be placed at a) the left hash or b) the right hash. What do you do?

mishatx · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2015, 11:05:35 AM »

Tell the captain it's not his choice, then do the opposite of what he asked for.

James · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2015, 10:14:59 AM »

Quote from: Kalle on October 06, 2015, 07:07:19 AM

1/10 at A-20 on the left hash. A12 throws a legal forward pass to A88 at A-35, right hash. Just as A88 is about to touch the ball B99 grabs his arm and prevents him from catching the ball. The pass falls incomplete. Captain A12 requests that the ball be placed at a) the left hash or b) the right hash. What do you do?

You didn't say if it was a DPI in the end, but I will read your question with that intent.
Then A could have the ball on the left hash. They just need to decline the penalty. 2/10 at previous spot.
If they take the penalty (you didn't say what yard line) it would be placed at the right hash. Ask him which is more important to him :-)

Kalle · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2015, 02:01:41 PM »

Quote from: James on November 13, 2015, 10:14:59 AM

You didn't say if it was a DPI in the end, but I will read your question with that intent.
Then A could have the ball on the left hash. They just need to decline the penalty. 2/10 at previous spot.
If they take the penalty (you didn't say what yard line) it would be placed at the right hash. Ask him which is more important to him :-)

I meant the DPI foul to occur at A-35 (right hash). By rule the ball will be placed at A-35, left hash, as the penalty statement says that if the foul occurs 15 or more yards beyond the previous spot, the 15 yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot. If the foul happened at A-34.5, then it would be 1/10 for team A at A-34.5, right hash.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2015, 03:05:24 PM »

Quote

By rule the ball will be placed at A-35, left hash, as the penalty statement says that if the foul occurs 15 or more yards beyond the previous spot, the 15 yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot. If the foul happened at A-34.5, then it would be 1/10 for team A at A-34.5, right hash.

Can you identify the rule(s) support for this?

Welpe · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2015, 03:14:42 PM »

It's the same as any other penalty enforced from the previous spot, the previous spot includes the lateral position of the ball between the hashes. Don't think you'll find anything more specific than that.

Kalle · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2015, 03:47:39 PM »

Quote from: Joe Stack on November 13, 2015, 03:05:24 PM

Can you identify the rule(s) support for this?

Carefully read rule 7-3-8-c-PENALTY.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2015, 10:02:03 PM »

Quote

the previous spot includes the lateral position of the ball between the hashes.

Since this is not in the definition of previous spot, where are you getting this?

Quote

Carefully read rule 7-3-8-c-PENALTY.

I did. Several times. The only thing I can see is the word, beyond, but I don't know that the intent of the rule for that is anything more than just saying "previous spot + 15 in favor of the offense." If that's not it, please clarify.

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anything SPECIFICALLY that supports the idea that the ball MUST stay in the same lateral zone in this situation. Maybe its tradition, but do you have anything else? I can't find anything myself.

Osric Pureheart · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2015, 05:28:53 AM »

The previous spot is "the point at which the ball was last put in play". Not the yard line, the point. If you really want to try to read that to mean anything other than "The previous spot is the exact position from which the ball was put in play", then you're being wilfully obtuse.

Kalle · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2015, 05:51:28 AM »

Quote from: Joe Stack on November 13, 2015, 10:02:03 PM

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anything SPECIFICALLY that supports the idea that the ball MUST stay in the same lateral zone in this situation. Maybe its tradition, but do you have anything else? I can't find anything myself.

If you claim that the previous spot is actually previous line, I repeat: do you allow team A captain to change the lateral position of the ball after enforcement, and if not, why not?

Legacy Zebra · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2015, 09:35:46 AM »

Here's another one to reinforce that the previous spot is just that: a spot, not a line. 1st and 10 at the A-35 on the left hash. The QB rolls out to his righ. After he gets outside the right hash, he throws an incomplete pass. Where are you going to spot the ball for 2nd down? The left hash, correct? Of course because that's the previous spot.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2015, 03:43:22 PM »

Quote

If you claim that the previous spot is actually previous line

I have not made ANY claim on this thread -- review my posts carefully. I have simply a) asked for ACTUAL rules support and 2) stated that I haven't seen it. After a very careful review (~45 minutes), I still haven't seen CLEAR support for the idea that the previous spot is ONLY the blade of grass (if you will) that the ball was snapped from. I'm NOT saying it isn't; I'm just asking for rules support here. If you want to call that obtuse, fine, but it doesn't address the issue.

The problem with the idea that "point" means something here is that the word "point" is used to define most of the "spots" defined in Rule 2: enforcement spot, previous spot, succeeding spot, etc. The enforcement spot for basic spot fouls BEHIND the basic spot are enforced from the spot of the foul, right?? So let's say we have Team with a simple run play to the left that ends up dead in the left side zone. But we have a Team A face mask foul on the right hash beyond the neutral zone but behind the end of the run. Where, according to the rules (assuming accepted penalty), are you going to position the ball and why? The enforcement spot AND spot of the foul both have "points" in there defined just like the previous spot does.

Kalle · « **Reply #20 on:** November 14, 2015, 03:59:35 PM »

Quote from: Joe Stack on November 14, 2015, 03:43:22 PM

I have not made ANY claim on this thread -- review my posts carefully. I have simply a) asked for ACTUAL rules support and 2) stated that I haven't seen it. After a very careful review (~45 minutes), I still haven't seen CLEAR support for the idea that the previous spot is ONLY the blade of grass (if you will) that the ball was snapped from. I'm NOT saying it isn't; I'm just asking for rules support here. If you want to call that obtuse, fine, but it doesn't address the issue.

The problem with the idea that "point" means something here is that the word "point" is used to define most of the "spots" defined in Rule 2: enforcement spot, previous spot, succeeding spot, etc. The enforcement spot for basic spot fouls BEHIND the basic spot are enforced from the spot of the foul, right?? So let's say we have Team with a simple run play to the left that ends up dead in the left side zone. But we have a Team A face mask foul on the right hash beyond the neutral zone but behind the end of the run. Where, according to the rules (assuming accepted penalty), are you going to position the ball and why? The enforcement spot AND spot of the foul both have "points" in there defined just like the previous spot does.

So you're not satisfied with the word "point" and would like that defined as well in rule 2? Well, the rule book must rely on some basic English language definitions, I think, or it would turn out to be a dictionary.

As to your example, the ball should be positioned 10 yards (or half the distance) behind the spot of the foul at the right hash. Any other lateral positioning is incorrect.