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Author Topic: Maybe it was the weather........  (Read 12318 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Maybe it was the weather........
« on: October 25, 2015, 01:01:55 PM »
https://youtu.be/-qg9uBah2CQ

Oops.  We got 8 fellas out there.  Someone needs to step up and save the crew
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 01:33:15 PM by TXMike »
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2015, 03:09:19 PM »
Running play and the umpire throwing a defensive holding flag? Does CCA mandate that an on-field official writes down all penalties? At least he should be wondering "what the hell".
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2015, 03:20:02 PM »
anything else?
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Offline fearlessleader

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2015, 03:51:30 PM »
You mean like the basic spot on a run play is the end of the run?
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2015, 03:53:31 PM »
D :bOW
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2015, 05:49:45 PM »
Big 12. 'Nuff said.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2015, 10:05:16 PM »
So I'm guessing that the other 6 were busy scratching their heads and pondering who was actually holding who on the play such that they overlooked the correct enforcement? :sTiR:

Quote from: fearlessleader on October 25, 2015, 03:51:30 PM
You mean like the basic spot on a run play is the end of the run?

Didn't the "hold" on B-95 start virtually simultaneous with the snap while the QB still had possession?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 08:34:32 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 04:31:34 PM »
 OK I get that.  I was basing it off of when it looks like he went to his flag.based on that I thought whatever he saw he must've saw after the handoff.
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 06:28:20 PM »
Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on October 25, 2015, 10:05:16 PM
So I'm guessing that the other 6 were busy scratching their heads and pondering who was actually holding who on the play such that they overlooked the correct enforcement? :sTiR:

Didn't the "hold" on B-95 start virtually simultaneous with the snap while the QB still had possession?

The timing of the DH has no bearing on enforcement. Still occurred during a running play


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Offline TXMike

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 06:38:02 PM »
Some years back when we had the concept that said there could only be one running play behind the NZ, it did not matter.  But we no longer have that.  We could have multiple running plays behind the NZ and determining the enforcement spot depends on when the foul occurred in relation to its related run.

Ex:  1st and 10 at the 50 .  QB A12 takes the snap and rolls left. At the A-45 he pitches the ball back to A22 who then runs a reverse to the right and is tackled at the B-40.   B76 is guilty of hands to the face during:
(a)  A12's run; or (b) A22's run.  In (a) penalty is from prev spot and in (b) it is at the B-40
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 08:29:28 PM »
Quote from: TxSkyBolt on October 26, 2015, 06:28:20 PM
The timing of the DH has no bearing on enforcement. Still occurred during a running play

Under current rules this is no longer true.  For enforcement the rule clearly states  ..... end of the related run.  The "hold" occurred right at the line of scrimmage virtually simultaneous with the snap.  At that time the QB was in possession of the ball (by definition a runner in the process of a running play).  After the handoff there was a new runner and a 2nd running play.  The related run language and the actual time the hold occurred is very important to the enforcement spot.  The basic spot for run 1 is the previous spot (the 27), for run number 2 it's the end of the run (about the 12 yard line).
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Offline JDM

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2015, 12:00:12 PM »
This is the same foul Texas was called for earlier in the year when Strong flew off the handle. I've been doing this 25 years and I can't remember seeing this foul ever being called on a running play.
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 01:10:41 PM »
Ah I see what you're saying. Correct


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Offline Welpe

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 09:00:29 AM »
Quote from: Kalle on October 25, 2015, 03:09:19 PM
Running play and the umpire throwing a defensive holding flag?

It could happen. A pull and shoot, a hold to keep a guard from pulling or a center being held to prevent him from getting to the next level all come to mind.

I think the flag was for the attempt to keep the center from going to the next level but I think that could be debated on whether it was a material restriction or not.

That said, I'd enforce this from the end of the run. Getting technical about whether the hold occurred before or after the hand-off is pointless and rewards the defense. The hold may also have started at the snap but it continued on throughout the play.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 09:06:39 AM by Welpe »
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2015, 06:52:57 AM »
Quote from: Welpe on October 29, 2015, 09:00:29 AM
That said, I'd enforce this from the end of the run. Getting technical about whether the hold occurred before or after the hand-off is pointless and rewards the defense. The hold may also have started at the snap but it continued on throughout the play.

Getting technical with the rules is what we have to do constantly during the game.  This (maybe?) was initially a defensive hold, but by the time the runner went by it was very clearly offensive holding.  The team A player very nearly ripped the jersey off of the defender in the continuing action.  IMHO to add this penalty to the end of the second run gives Team A an undeserved benefit and is counter to the clear wording and intent of the rule.  IMO the team B player's actions here did not in any way create even a slight disadvantage for team A.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 02:11:38 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
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chymechowder

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2015, 09:18:57 AM »
Any chance the U threw the flag for Team A holding?  But then he got his offending/offended numbers crossed up and mis-reported it?

I mean, when he throws the flag, he's looking directly at the Team A lineman's hand pulling the BACK of 95's jersey at the point of attack.
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Offline centexsports

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Re: Maybe it was the weather........
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2015, 11:33:36 AM »
After watching it ten more times, I think he threw the flag for #75 tackling the blocker coming out of the backfield.
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