Author Topic: John Jay Follow-up  (Read 48484 times)

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Offline TXPanhandle

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John Jay Follow-up
« on: November 15, 2015, 07:58:42 PM »
Just curious if anyone knows if Burnett County ever decided to press charges or, since it's been silent for over a month now, it's dead from the DA? 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 08:05:40 PM by TXPanhandle »

Offline fitz13

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 01:12:10 PM »
i personally feel the UIL/TASO dropped the ball on their end on this situation. i hope the DA does its part.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 01:29:34 PM »
i personally feel the UIL/TASO dropped the ball on their end on this situation. i hope the DA does its part.
  What exactly did UIL / TASO do to drop the ball?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 04:28:11 PM »
  What exactly did UIL / TASO do to drop the ball?

Agreed.  The ball is in the court of the official.  The official is the one who has to file charges, not UIL or TASO.  There was a complaint made against the official, so TASO did its part by investigated the complaint, but the filing of criminal charges rest solely on the official and then the DA.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 07:52:47 PM »
First of all, it isn't a county jurisdiction here; it's the city of Marble Falls. Second, in spite of the fact that we saw this on video, there is still an investigation. The DA can't just prop the video in front of the court and say, "here it is; send them to jail." Someone must testify that the video is a true and accurate depiction of events, etc. As stated, there also must be a complaining party and/or witness.

Keep in mind that there are almost certainly persons and entities that hope that this all just goes away. I don't know if that's an influence here or not.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 08:05:01 PM »
First of all, it isn't a county jurisdiction here; it's the city of Marble Falls. Second, in spite of the fact that we saw this on video, there is still an investigation. The DA can't just prop the video in front of the court and say, "here it is; send them to jail." Someone must testify that the video is a true and accurate depiction of events, etc. As stated, there also must be a complaining party and/or witness.

Keep in mind that there are almost certainly persons and entities that hope that this all just goes away. I don't know if that's an influence here or not.
  Joe -- I think this is a Burnett County issue.  This would be a felony prosecution, if at all, and this is not a city matter.  Yes, it happened in the City of Marble Falls -- but state criminal actions are generally brought by the elected County DA.  And, I believe that we have read that Mr. Watts did press charges.  So, it would be nice to know if it was presented to a grand jury?  But, more to the point of this thread -- this is neither a TASO nor a UIL matter anymore.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 10:01:20 PM »
I was talking city vs. county as in the MF police rather than the County Sheriff's dept. I know the DA is a county official, but the initial investigation and likely the charges (or at least, the application of charges) will start at the city level, absent something weird. The Sheriff MIGHT get involved if the city refuses, but who knows whether they will.

Offline TXMike

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Offline TexDoc

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2015, 03:47:03 PM »
Personally, I'm more concerned with what happens to the players than the coach.  Why they have dragged their feet so long is baffling.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2015, 07:19:00 PM »
"Investigation regarding others involved in the assault is ongoing, and charges against player Michael Moreno and an unnamed juvenile are expected to be filed shortly," Arredondo said Monday.

  Coming . . . .


Offline TexDoc

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2015, 06:14:47 AM »
I find it strange that someone can be charged and found guilty of assault when they never laid a hand on anyone.

Offline TXMike

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2015, 06:32:11 AM »
You "cause" a crime, or assist is any way and you can be charged with murder.  Guy that drives the getaway car after a murdet can be convicted of murder

Offline TexDoc

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2015, 06:35:17 AM »
You "cause" a crime, or assist is any way and you can be charged with murder.  Guy that drives the getaway car after a murdet can be convicted of murder

Are you some kind of law enforcement expert or something??? :bOW

Offline scrounge

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2015, 07:07:29 AM »
I find it strange that someone can be charged and found guilty of assault when they never laid a hand on anyone.

Additionally, the term 'assault' in many states doesn't necessarily refer to the physical act but rather the threat or instigation. Credibly yelling "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU" could be assault, while beating someone up would be battery.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2015, 07:58:00 AM »
I find it strange that someone can be charged and found guilty of assault when they never laid a hand on anyone.
So you're wanting to let this clown off the hook?
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Offline TexDoc

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2015, 08:12:55 AM »
So you're wanting to let this clown off the hook?

Not at all! 

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2015, 12:35:16 PM »
Not at all!

I dont think anyone is saying that...rather, as occasionally happens on interweb forums, there was discussion about appropriate punishment. 
My summary of the discussion: 
  • Doc wants some sort of laying of hands.
  • Mike wants murder charges
  • There were (correct) legal opinions on the charges of assault vs. battery (thx Scrounge)
  • and finally some clown got trolled. 
:sTiR:

 tiphat:

I found it funny that the article said charges are pending for "Moreno and an unnamed juvenile"
Looking forward to see the charges against the thugs kids
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2015, 09:29:53 PM »
Quote
Guy that drives the getaway car after a murdet can be convicted of murder

Well, its really felony murder (a death that occurs during a felony you commit) and conspiracy to commit. For first and second degree murder, you PRETTY MUCH have to be the one that inflicted the damage that lead to the death.

Remember here that there isn't any conviction per se; this  was a plea deal. The DA can charge whatever he has ANY facts to support the charge and, of course, the defendant can plea out or go to trial. The important thing here isn't the crime so much as hopefully the assurance that this individual will not coach and also not be involved in any youth sports again. I just turned in paperwork for a church-league basketball position (which I should be set with in spite of those fun-filled years I spent in San Quentin -- but don't tell anyone). I think listing a conviction for any assault relating to a sporting event is going to get someone bounced.

Offline HoustonRef

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2015, 10:12:43 PM »
Not at all!
Currently in the game of football, players with pads and helmets are suffering concussions and long lingering effects of "big hits." These players put multiple hits on a defenseless person without pads/helmet and you think it's strange to charge them assault? You right, you right send them to detention.
C'mon TexImObviouslyNotaDoc
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 10:29:46 PM by HoustonRef »

Offline TexDoc

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 07:20:28 AM »
C'mon TexImObviouslyNotaDoc

"Doc" has nothing whatsoever to do with my profession.  Look at the brackets I provide.  You'll get it.

Offline adaref

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 10:21:50 AM »
As someone in the business, it is awesome to see folks discussing what we talk about in the courthouse all the time. It really is not complicated at all. Burnet County has a split jurisdiction with a County Attorney and a District Attorney. D.A. handle felonies for a number of counties in that judicial district. C.A. handles misdemeanors.  I do think you could make a valid argument that the "spearing" caused the helmet to be used in a manner capable of causing serious bodily injury. This would then make this a felony aggravated assault. Not the easiest road but one that you could professionally support. They decided to go misdemeanor which is within their local discretion. The Penal Code Sec 7.02 is the basis for the charge as a "Party" which is if anyone ..."with the intent to promote or assist the commission of the offense a person solicits, encourages, directs, aids or attempts to aid the other person in committing the offense". We use this quite regularly in multiple defendant cases or when like I regularly do when I try gang cases. Just have to "direct or aid" and you are just as guilty. Like a  recent gang head I tried for ordering a robbery that went bad when one of the crooks killed one of the other crooks while "sweeping" the house they had invaded. Used transferred intent and the law of parties and the head of the gang who never left their "clubhouse" is now serving life without parole. So they got the coach in effect for using his leadership position to "order" or encourage the act and thus making him criminally culpable. (Just a note as well, felony murder is when you commit, or attempt to commit,  a felony and then commit an act dangerous to human life that causes the death of a another. My most recent one really drunk guy pulled a gun on his common-law Brother in Law and then had the gun go off during a struggle. Just changes what we have to prove from an intent struggle. This guy is serving a life sentence as well but can get out when he gets to his early 90s. )

Offline adaref

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 10:28:49 AM »
Sorry, sent before I finished. You guys got it dead on. Might need some hang him folks in the group for jury duty soon. Volunteers?  :) Merry Christmas and may all your stockings be filled with State games for 2016.

Offline TXPanhandle

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2016, 03:50:24 PM »
Haven't seen anything since early last month when it appeared charges were close. Anyone have an update?

Offline BrendanP

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Re: John Jay Follow-up
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2016, 03:55:52 AM »
Reading through some of this...I'm so glad I'm going to be a defense attorney and not a prosecutor.