Where is the ball snapped next?

[cwag]

This is a play from a first round Texas HS playoff game (NCAA rules).  I had a good look at this from the stands.  Made me curious if the enforcement was completely correct so I put it out for discussion to crew mates plus a few others.  Now I would like to see what all you rules experts have to say.

Try from B-3.  A1 wide out to right goes in motion, ball snapped and forward handoff (or pitch) to A1 as he passes in front of QB.  A1 runs toward pylon on left (HL side) and having a clear path to EZ starts high stepping at the B-3 then enters the EZ near the pylon.  B24 in pursuit shoves A1 in back in white OOB area after crossing goal line.  Both players go to ground and crash into team's deflated blow up tunnel laying near wall close to sideline.  A1's helmet comes off as they go down. A1 jumps up angry, stands over B24 screaming at him and taunting.

So here are the fouls as reported. They got all fouls I saw in the action.
1. Live ball UNS on A1 for the high stepping prior to crossing the goal line so no score.
2. Dead Ball UNR on B24 for the shove.
3. Dead ball UNS on A1 for taunting reaction and DQ.

So where does the ball get put into play next?  Do you go with 10-1-5 or 10-1-6b?

[JasonTX]

Re-Try from the B-18.  The two dead ball fouls offset.

[bctgp]

agree with JasonTX

[Aussie-Zebra]

Re-Try from the B-18.  The two dead ball fouls offset.

 

[Kalle]

Remember to eject A1.

[cwag]

Hey guys, take a minute and read 10-1-6b.  I believe this is the governing rule since there is live and dead ball fouls.  Another part that is relevant is this is in an area where half-the-distance enforcement could come into play.

The live ball foul cancels the score and sets up replay of the try down.  The two dead ball fouls are separate actions a few seconds apart and should be enforced in the order they occurred.  So mark off the LB foul from the B-3 leaving the ball at the B-18.  With the UNR by B occurring next, it would be half-the-distance to the B-9 followed by the UNS on A taking the ball to the B-24 for the next snap.

If enforced this way the R will have to do some explaining to an unhappy A coach.  I don't have an issue with offsetting the two DB fouls but by doing that are we REALLY following the rule?  If the ball is in a position where the order of fouling team and half-the-distance enforcement is not part of the equation, then certainly offset.  Modify this scenario by saying A's DB foul comes before B's.  Then marking them both off puts the ball at the B-18, so offsetting is the net effect.

[Kalle]

Hey guys, take a minute and read 10-1-6b.  I believe this is the governing rule since there is live and dead ball fouls.

Incorrect. Rule 10-1-5-exception is more specific and overrides 10-1-6-b. True, 10-1-6-b could list 10-1-5-ex as an exception, but the NCAA rule book isn't entirely complete anyway.

[bctgp]

agree with Kalle. Cancel them and enforce the live ball foul (A1 DQ'd) and move on.

[BrendanP]

I don't recall the spotting of this play, but I did see it happen in a game and my question is about a live ball on one team and a dead ball on the other per NCAA rules.

A-80 returns a punt, and A-30 commits a BIB at the A 25-yard line. After the play, B-17 is flagged for UNS. Is the correct mechanic here to march off 10 yards from the 25 for the BIB to the A15, and then move forward 15 to the A30 to enforce the UNS?

[Legacy Zebra]

First you should flip your A and B designations. If A80 is returning a punt, you should have a flag for an illegal scrimmage kick. A is the team who puts the ball in play, B is the opponent. So A is always the kicking team. But yes in your case both fouls would be enforced. You deal with all the live ball stuff, then you deal with the dead ball stuff. They are totally separate. So yes, that would be the correct enforcement.

[DallasLJ]

I don't recall the spotting of this play, but I did see it happen in a game and my question is about a live ball on one team and a dead ball on the other per NCAA rules.

A-80 returns a punt, and A-30 commits a BIB at the A 25-yard line. After the play, B-17 is flagged for UNS. Is the correct mechanic here to march off 10 yards from the 25 for the BIB to the A15, and then move forward 15 to the A30 to enforce the UNS?

  Correct.  Live ball and dead ball do not offset.  So, enforce the live ball, then enforce the dead ball.

[timhedge]

Remember to eject A1.

Nice catch.


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[Skuza]

You mean I got it right...Good guess right   Al

[Skuza]

YES A-1 WAS EJECTED SKUZA