Author Topic: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?  (Read 6725 times)

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Offline houstonjaguar

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Offline mishatx

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Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 02:44:43 PM »
hard to see the critical moment, but it looks like a toss forward instead of a handoff.  ^no

Offline The Roamin' Umpire

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Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 09:01:07 AM »
At that range, this is much more likely to be a fumbled handoff than an attempted pass. I'd have to be REALLY damned sure that this was a toss to whistle it dead... and I'm not from that video.

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 02:58:28 PM »
At that range, this is much more likely to be a fumbled handoff than an attempted pass. I'd have to be REALLY darned sure that this was a toss to whistle it dead... and I'm not from that video.

I seem to remember a point of emphasis earlier this year (or last?) about these "jet" sweep type plays and how coaches were intentionally teaching players to do this short toss forward (instead of a handoff) because it should be ruled an incomplete pass if the ball is dropped and reduces the risk of turnover on a high speed play.  Example of the rules interpretation resulting in coaches changing strategy/tactics.
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline BrendanP

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Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 07:14:32 AM »
At that range, this is much more likely to be a fumbled handoff than an attempted pass. I'd have to be REALLY darned sure that this was a toss to whistle it dead... and I'm not from that video.

Yeah, it'd be hard to see at real-time speed, but if it's forward, it's forward. This situation came up on the first play from scrimmage in the Michigan/Rutgers game two weeks ago. What was initially ruled a fumble on the field was reversed and ruled an incomplete forward pass by replay.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 07:32:29 AM by BrendanP »

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 09:17:25 AM »
Yeah, it'd be hard to see at real-time speed, but if it's forward, it's forward. This situation came up on the first play from scrimmage in the Michigan/Rutgers game two weeks ago. What was initially ruled a fumble on the field was reversed and ruled an incomplete forward pass by replay.

Since hearing about these plays at a clinic this spring, we have basically been instructed this way:

Can you "see air" between the handoff QB and the jet player?
    if yes, its a forward pass.
    if no, its a handoff

officiate subsequent loose balls accordingly.
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2015, 09:12:57 AM »
Yeah, it'd be hard to see at real-time speed, but if it's forward, it's forward. This situation came up on the first play from scrimmage in the Michigan/Rutgers game two weeks ago. What was initially ruled a fumble on the field was reversed and ruled an incomplete forward pass by replay.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 09:15:45 AM by Aussie-Zebra »
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