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Author Topic: PSK or Prev Spot  (Read 12102 times)

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Offline BoBo

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PSK or Prev Spot
« on: December 06, 2015, 05:49:19 PM »
4th down Scrimmage Kick (PUNT)

Defense is lined up in the neutral zone.

Balls is punted and fair caught.

Can the kicking team accept the penalty and have it tacked on at the end of the kick as PSK?

Or is it previous spot enforcement option only?
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Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2015, 06:24:52 PM »
Previous spot only. Foul is not during the kick.
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Offline BoBo

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2015, 06:27:40 PM »
I agree,

Any PSK on B has to bee after the kick or when the kick is pretty much going to happen then
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Offline Kalle

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2015, 12:24:02 AM »
A bit simpler answer: the penalty clause for offside is "previous spot", thus it cannot be enforced from the basic spot.
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Offline sj_31

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2015, 08:23:43 AM »
And to expand on Kalle's comment, PSK enforcement falls under the umbrella of the 3-and-1 principle, all PSK does is change the basic spot if certain criteria are met. Any time the spot of enforcement is given in the bold penalty statement then it does NOT fall under the 3-and-1 and you do exactly what it says to do. (Example: "Five yards" vs. "Five yards from the previous spot")

A great example of this (while not relative to PSK) that you'll see on tests is when an ineligible player catches/touches a legal forward pass while standing in his own end zone. The penalty is 5 yards from the PS. End of story. That's what the penalty statement says. It's not a safety like many people think.
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Offline bossman72

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2015, 08:35:37 AM »
Previous spot. You cannot tack on B fouls, ever.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2015, 08:40:34 AM »
Quote from: bossman72 on December 07, 2015, 08:35:37 AM
Previous spot. You cannot tack on B fouls, ever.

Maybe it would be better to say that we cannot tack on B fouls that are simultaneous with the snap?
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Offline bossman72

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2015, 08:44:15 AM »
Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on December 07, 2015, 08:40:34 AM
Maybe it would be better to say that we cannot tack on B fouls that are simultaneous with the snap?

Well, no, you cannot ever "tack on" B fouls like you do with A fouls.  B fouls are either PSK or previous spot.  Cannot "tack on" from the end of the play.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2015, 08:46:56 AM »
OK - if we add PSK there.  When a young official reads never he gets the wrong message.

"Previous spot. You cannot tack on B fouls, unless they qualify for PSK."
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 08:50:50 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline dvasques

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2015, 10:04:54 PM »
Quote from: sj_31 on December 07, 2015, 08:23:43 AM
And to expand on Kalle's comment, PSK enforcement falls under the umbrella of the 3-and-1 principle, all PSK does is change the basic spot if certain criteria are met. Any time the spot of enforcement is given in the bold penalty statement then it does NOT fall under the 3-and-1 and you do exactly what it says to do. (Example: "Five yards" vs. "Five yards from the previous spot")

A great example of this (while not relative to PSK) that you'll see on tests is when an ineligible player catches/touches a legal forward pass while standing in his own end zone. The penalty is 5 yards from the PS. End of story. That's what the penalty statement says. It's not a safety like many people think.


I understand the 3 and 1 principle and the rule but I have a question

what does 3 and 1 mean? 3 what? and 1 what?
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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2015, 10:30:26 PM »
3 situations where the penalty is enforced from the basic spot and 1 situation where it is enforced from the spot of the foul.
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Offline sj_31

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2015, 11:23:36 PM »
To further illustrate why the penalty statement is so important relative to PSK, one needs to look at the penalty for roughing/running into the kicker in 9-1-16. "15 yards from the previous spot, plus automatic first down...."

If it didn't say "from the previous spot," then RRK/RNK would be a PSK foul the way that the PSK enforcement rule is written today per 10-2-3-b. Those of us that have been using NCAA rules for more than 2 years will remember when Rogers removed the line about the foul having to be more than 3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Now the foul by B just has to be during the kick (among the other things listed in 10-2-3-b). However you can't have roughing the kicker without a kicker, and you can't have a kicker without a legal kick. So therefore, if the penalty for roughing/running into didn't specifically state "from the previous spot" you would HAVE to enforce those fouls from the end of the kick if B ended up with the ball because the RRK/RNK would have to have occurred during the kick.
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Offline Osric Pureheart

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 05:57:05 AM »
3 and 1 diagram, in case anyone wants one:

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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2015, 06:42:36 AM »
Here's almost all of the related text on one page and a diagram.  Helps in training class so you don't have to hunt around in the book.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 06:52:41 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2015, 01:36:44 PM »
Every year I propose an editorial change that reorders 10-2-2-c so the "one" is listed last.  Right now it reads as the 1 and 3.

I have no pull with the editorial committee.
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Offline Joe Stack

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Re: PSK or Prev Spot
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2015, 05:49:36 PM »
Quote
Well, no, you cannot ever "tack on" B fouls like you do with A fouls.

You need to qualify that. Dead ball fouls and live ball fouls enforced like dead ball fouls. Sideline interference?
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