Two point conversion mechanics?

[matrixwalker]

Was curious about on a two point conversion attempt after a touchdown, if the play is a run and falls short of the goal line, do you just give the "no good" signal?

[TxSkyBolt]

Yes



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[Morningrise]

Immediately giving a "no good" signal could be confusing. Suppose there is a diving catch by a grounded receiver at the six-inch line. If you signal that the try is no good, the Team A coach is going to flip out because he thinks you're signaling incomplete. According to his wishful thinking, that catch probably happened in the end zone, and you cost him two points by screwing up the catch call.

So I like to indicate the result of the play first. If a runner (including the receiver in the above example) is down within a yard or two of the goal line, I'll sell his shortness by pointing at the ground a few times, like when selling a call of down vs. fumble. That's basically the best way I can think of to sell a no-touchdown call. (On a numbered down, the stop-the-clock signal will sometimes do the job too.)

Then after a beat I might signal the result of the *try* by giving the "no good" signal - but you know what, why not leave that to the R facing the press box?

[HLinNC]

If you signal that the try is no good, the Team A coach is going to flip out because he thinks you're signaling incomplete.

If it WAS incomplete, its just as NO GOOD.  Long way around the barn when a simple no good signal shows the end of the play, no matter the reason.

[BlindZebra]

Immediately giving a "no good" signal could be confusing. Suppose there is a diving catch by a grounded receiver at the six-inch line. If you signal that the try is no good, the Team A coach is going to flip out because he thinks you're signaling incomplete. According to his wishful thinking, that catch probably happened in the end zone, and you cost him two points by screwing up the catch call.

So I like to indicate the result of the play first. If a runner (including the receiver in the above example) is down within a yard or two of the goal line, I'll sell his shortness by pointing at the ground a few times, like when selling a call of down vs. fumble. That's basically the best way I can think of to sell a no-touchdown call. (On a numbered down, the stop-the-clock signal will sometimes do the job too.)

Then after a beat I might signal the result of the *try* by giving the "no good" signal - but you know what, why not leave that to the R facing the press box?

Understand what you are trying to do, but isn't that an unnecessary signal?  If the receiver landed 6 inches short of the goal line on the ground after completing the catch, isn't the try unsuccessful?  So if that's the case, wouldn't you just give the incomplete signal (FR-134 signal 10)?  If the coach is flipping out that he caught the ball, which he did, then all you have to say is "Coach, your right.  He did catch the ball, but he was short of the goal line making it an unsuccessful attempt."

[Zap 10]

Our coordinator, FCS league, has instructed our crews to signal that the conversion is NO GOOD  regardless if it is a pass or run.

[Morningrise]

Understand what you are trying to do, but isn't that an unnecessary signal?

I consider it about as unnecessary as the good ol' Wind-And-Kill inside 1:59. When a runner is tackled near the sideline for a first down in the last two minutes of a half, the clock stops, but it helps everyone out if they know WHY it stopped. Likewise, when a runner completes a catch and is downed near the goal line, the try is no good, but it helps everyone out if they know WHY it's no good.

Of course, in the try scenario, nobody's strategy depends on what you're signaling. It's just for information, to sell the ruling. So it's not a perfect analogy.

Our coordinator, FCS league, has instructed our crews to signal that the conversion is NO GOOD  regardless if it is a pass or run.

Well, that's good enough for me! I'll keep doing it.

[jg-me]

The one exception I would make to simply signaling no good is if there is a question of whether or not a pass was caught when the play is short of the GL. Let the stat keeper know it is complete (or not), then signal no score.

[Rulesman]

We really needs to worry about officiating the game and not the keeper of stats.

[Joe Stack]

So I like to indicate the result of the play first.

Any mechanics book authority for this?

Don't overthink. Just signal no good. If the coach wants to know, tell him. There isn't a penalty I am aware of that will replay the try and enforce from what would be the succeeding spot (i.e. where the player who caught it was down). IF you can find one -- or something like that making that spot important -- THEN we can reconsider. But until then, it makes no difference if the catch is complete or incomplete on a try if a live ball doesn't end up in the end zone.

[Legacy Zebra]

. There isn't a penalty I am aware of that will replay the try and enforce from what would be the succeeding spot (i.e. where the player who caught it was down). IF you can find one -- or something like that making that spot important -- THEN we can reconsider.

Any defensive personal foul would do the trick. Any defensive personal foul during a pass play would be enforced from the end of the last run if it ends beyond the neutral zone or from the previous spot if it's incomplete. Let's say you have roughing the passer. If the pass is caught, but the ball carrier is down of the short of the goal line, you'll go half the distance from there and replay the try. If it's incomplete, you'd go half the distance from the previous spot. You can substitute any defensive personal foul, such as hands to the face, for the RPS and the ruling stays the same.

[SA_Zebra]

In your example,  you are implying the R would be giving the incomplete signal thus creating confusion which is highly unlikely. The calling official calls it incomplete, the R then faces the press box and gives the "no good" signal... they are both giving the same signal, but serving two different purposes.

[BlindZebra]

Any defensive personal foul would do the trick. Any defensive personal foul during a pass play would be enforced from the end of the last run if it ends beyond the neutral zone or from the previous spot if it's incomplete. Let's say you have roughing the passer. If the pass is caught, but the ball carrier is down of the short of the goal line, you'll go half the distance from there and replay the try. If it's incomplete, you'd go half the distance from the previous spot. You can substitute any defensive personal foul, such as hands to the face, for the RPS and the ruling stays the same.

I don't think this foul goes to the end of the run. You might be right, but it doesn't sound right. I know it's the off season so the cobwebs are starting to come down, but something about this doesn't sound right. Walk me through the process of ending up half the distance from the end of the run on a try.

[Legacy Zebra]

Why wouldn't it? How else would you enforce it? RPS is enforced from the end of the last run unless the pass is incomplete or there's a change of possession. A replay of a try is from anywhere on or behind where a penalty on B leaves the ball (between the hashes of course). So if the penalty leaves the ball half the distance from the end of the last run, that's where the replay of the try will be.

[Etref]

In your example,  you are implying the R would be giving the incomplete signal thus creating confusion which is highly unlikely. The calling official calls it incomplete, the R then faces the press box and gives the "no good" signal... they are both giving the same signal, but serving two different purposes.

Which is a good example of giving several waves of the arms for incomplete and one wave for the no good

[BlindZebra]

Why wouldn't it? How else would you enforce it? RPS is enforced from the end of the last run unless the pass is incomplete or there's a change of possession. A replay of a try is from anywhere on or behind where a penalty on B leaves the ball (between the hashes of course). So if the penalty leaves the ball half the distance from the end of the last run, that's where the replay of the try will be.

Not saying it wouldn't.  It just doesn't sound right at the moment.  You might be 100% correct.  I just gotta get my nose in the book and refresh!  'Tis the season.