Author Topic: Tight End and Tackle Box and IBW (Read 20240 times)

TXMike · « **on:** June 25, 2016, 05:54:14 AM »

Supposedly there was going to be clarification that said all TE's (which I guess would mean the 3d player from the snapper on the LOS) are going to be declared RESTRICTED blockers, even if they are in the tackle box (for the purposes of blocking below the waist rule). Anyone seen anything official? Which supervisors are putting this out, with or without the NCAA clarification?

NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2016, 06:21:00 AM »

We've heard a similar rumor that a clarification was coming. The explanation that I've heard is that the question of the status of the tight will be clarified in black and white to avoid the debate "in or out" of the tackle box and the required judgment call that results. When the TE is lined up "close" to the tackle and the splits vary from play to play this one can be a tough call, especially with those teams that regularly adjust their line splits just before they set.

TXMike · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2016, 06:39:05 AM »

Image attached showing split issue courtesy of the Houston Chapter

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Rulesman · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2016, 11:13:23 AM »

Good luck making this call!

fblrush · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2016, 04:06:31 PM »

At the CFO west clinic two weekends ago they made it clear that no more than 2 players each side of the snapper are in the tackle box. Tight splits does NOT change that. The only way the TE is in the tackle box is if he is the second player from the snapper (unbalanced, short side).

copedaddy · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2016, 05:00:15 PM »

This would be a great and easy on officials. That said how often does this happen? The easy on officials thing. I have to suspect that it will not happen.

NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2016, 05:19:28 AM »

Quote from: fblrush on June 25, 2016, 04:06:31 PM

At the CFO west clinic two weekends ago they made it clear that no more than 2 players each side of the snapper are in the tackle box. Tight splits does NOT change that. The only way the TE is in the tackle box is if he is the second player from the snapper (unbalanced, short side).

Has anyone seen this clarification in written form yet?

TXMike · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2016, 02:42:43 PM »

Still have not seen in writing but sure have heard it said from many different areas. Why dont they just write the rule like this:

The following Team A players may legally block below the waist inside the tackle box until they leave the tackle box or until the ball has left the tackle box: (a) The snapper and the 1st 2 players to either side of him who are on the line of scrimmage and completely inside the tackle box and (b) stationary backs who are at least partially inside the tackle box and at least partially inside the frame of the body of the second lineman from the snapper.

Kalle · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2016, 03:04:04 PM »

I think the intent is more: ... (a) linemen ineligible by number and completely inside the tackle box and (b) ...

bossman72 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2016, 03:08:30 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on June 28, 2016, 02:42:43 PM

Still have not seen in writing but sure have heard it said from many different areas. Why dont they just write the rule like this:

The following Team A players may legally block below the waist inside the tackle box until they leave the tackle box or until the ball has left the tackle box: (a) The snapper and the 1st 2 players to either side of him who are on the line of scrimmage and completely inside the tackle box and (b) stationary backs who are at least partially inside the tackle box and at least partially inside the frame of the body of the second lineman from the snapper.

The definition of tackle box is fine. I think the name "tackle box" implies the tackle position is the width of the box. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.

TXMike · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2016, 04:29:40 PM »

Quote from: Kalle on June 28, 2016, 03:04:04 PM

I think the intent is more: ... (a) linemen ineligible by number and completely inside the tackle box and (b) ...

Not so sure. If they ran a tackle over so tehy had 3 ineligibles next to the snapper I dont think Redding wants that 3d guy blocking low from the side

TXMike · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2016, 04:30:43 PM »

Quote from: bossman72 on June 28, 2016, 03:08:30 PM

The definition of tackle box is fine. I think the name "tackle box" implies the tackle position is the width of the box. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.

Except for the fact the definition specifically says 5 yards. If that is not important, remove it

first_year_guy · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2016, 09:52:00 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on June 28, 2016, 04:29:40 PM

Not so sure. If they ran a tackle over so tehy had 3 ineligibles next to the snapper I dont think Redding wants that 3d guy blocking low from the side

Quote from: fblrush on June 25, 2016, 04:06:31 PM

At the CFO west clinic two weekends ago they made it clear that no more than 2 players each side of the snapper are in the tackle box. Tight splits does NOT change that. The only way the TE is in the tackle box is if he is the second player from the snapper (unbalanced, short side).

This seems to clear it up, regardless of who is the 3rd guy is he can't go low from the side

Kalle · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2016, 04:18:54 AM »

Quote from: TXMike on June 28, 2016, 04:29:40 PM

Not so sure. If they ran a tackle over so tehy had 3 ineligibles next to the snapper I dont think Redding wants that 3d guy blocking low from the side

Yeah, if it is meant to apply to unbalanced lines, then my wording would be incorrect. I guess we'll see how a play situation bulletin will spell it out for us.

TXMike · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2016, 07:11:05 AM »

Quote from: first_year_guy on June 28, 2016, 09:52:00 PM

This seems to clear it up, regardless of who is the 3rd guy is he can't go low from the side

Unfortunately it does not clear it up unless it was RR who said it at the clinic. This is the source of the confusion. Things being said at these college clinics, possibly without approval from RR. It may be how a specific conference wants to interpret it but without someting definitive from CFO or RR I am hesitant to adopt it .

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TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2016, 07:34:42 AM »

So, ask him.

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TXMike · « **Reply #16 on:** June 29, 2016, 08:02:48 AM »

"The TE can never legally block low and from the side"

"The TE can never legally block low and from the side in a normal scrimmage formation"

These are very different statements

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2016, 05:46:31 PM »

Whom are you quoting?

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dvasques · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2016, 10:39:05 PM »

or wait until July 15th when they say the training video for BBW will be out, according to the CFO site

TXMike · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2016, 07:59:14 AM »

To update......
The video came out last week. The narrator specifically said that "by interpretation" regardless of splits, the TE (and I assume he means the 3d player form the ball) can never legally block low from the side.

At the Texas state meeting Rogers Redding specifically said, the tight end may be unrestricted at times as he may be in the tackle box due to splits.

JDM · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2016, 07:47:23 PM »

Will TASO chime in or will confusion consist?

JasonTX · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2016, 10:15:25 PM »

Rogers Redding answered to the masses at the TASO state meeting. He stated that the Tight End may or may not be restricted. If he can squeeze into the tackle box then he will be unrestricted. That statement is consistent with the rules. The tackle box IS NOT tackle to tackle. It is 5 yards both directions from the snapper. Whatever number of linemen you can cram into that box will unrestricted.

TxBJ · « **Reply #22 on:** August 03, 2016, 07:18:37 PM »

Quote from: JasonTX on August 02, 2016, 10:15:25 PM

Rogers Redding answered to the masses at the TASO state meeting. He stated that the Tight End may or may not be restricted. If he can squeeze into the tackle box then he will be unrestricted. That statement is consistent with the rules. The tackle box IS NOT tackle to tackle. It is 5 yards both directions from the snapper. Whatever number of linemen you can cram into that box will unrestricted.

Agree. It sure would be easier to officiate, however, if the tackle box was defined tackle to tackle but no more than five yards each way.

NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #23 on:** August 04, 2016, 10:28:55 AM »

So based on the wording if we have tight splits and the TE is "clearly" inside the tackle box he's unrestricted (because he's a lineman), but if he takes a single step straight back (still 100% inside the tackle box) and resets as a back he's now restricted. Not sure I want to be the R explaining that flag to the head coach.

TXMike · « **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2016, 10:03:48 PM »

The answer has come from Dr Redding. They want the "spirit and intent"" of the rule to prevail and they want the TE always restricted. He did not say but I presume that means the 3d lineman from the snapper, even if it happens to be a tackle in the tackle over.