Test question...

[psv]

On a try, the ball carrier A32 is pulled down by his facemask just before he goes out of bounds at the one yard line.

Options:

A) Replay the try from the 1/2 yd line at a spot between the inbounds lines of Team A's Choice.
B) Replay the try from the center of the field at the 1/2 yd line.
C) No score enforce the penalty on the kickoff.
D) None of the above.

What say you?

Thanks 

[Cars69]

8-3-2c
The snap will be midway between the hash marks on the opponent’s
three-yard line or from any other point on or between the hash marks
on or behind the opponent’s three-yard line if the position of the ball
is selected by the team designated to put the ball in play before the
ready-for-play signal. The ball may be relocated after a Team B foul or
a charged timeout to either team, unless the timeout is preceded by a
Team A foul or offsetting fouls (Rules 8-3-3-a and 8-3-3-c-1).

[psv]

So what answer would you choose:  A, B, C or D?

So, i will let the cat out of the bag... My confusion is the spot of the ball. The Try was unsuccessful.  Wouldn't the enforcement spot be from the 3, putting the ball at the 1.5 yard line? 

Both A and B say 1/2 yard line.  I am having a hard time finding where we give Team A the yardage on an unsuccessful try.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Where is the spot of the foul?

[Kalle]

Both A and B say 1/2 yard line.  I am having a hard time finding where we give Team A the yardage on an unsuccessful try.

There is no exception in rule 8-3-3 which would force all penalties to be enforced from the previous spot, so normal penalty enforcement rules apply.

[Cars69]

It will be one untimed down from the B 1 1/2 yard line. Because there was an accepted team B penalty team A can move the ball between the the hash marks.

So you answer will be "D" none of the above.

So what answer would you choose:  A, B, C or D?

So, i will let the cat out of the bag... My confusion is the spot of the ball. The Try was unsuccessful.  Wouldn't the enforcement spot be from the 3, putting the ball at the 1.5 yard line? 

Both A and B say 1/2 yard line.  I am having a hard time finding where we give Team A the yardage on an unsuccessful try.

[psv]

Thanks all.

So, in talking it over with my crew and other official friends, they were all of the opinion as Kalle.  There is no specific requirement to go back to the previous spot on trys where there is a Team B foul. 

8-3-3-b:
"Fouls by Team B on a try:

1. When the try is successful Team A shall have the option of declining the score and repeating the try after enforcement, or declining the penalty(ies) and accepting the score. Team A may accept the score with penalties for personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct fouls enforced on the succeeding kickoff or from the succeeding spot in extra periods (A.R. 3-2-3-VI; A.R. 8-3-2-II; A.R. 8-3-3-I; and A.R. 10-2-5-IX-XI).

2. A repeat of the down after a penalty against Team B may be from any point on or between the hash marks on or behind the yard line where the penalty leaves the ball. (A.R. 8-3-3-III) "

The key there is after enforcement.  So, in this case, how would you enforce a facemask on a regular run?  15 yards from the end of the run, or, in our instance, 1/2 the distance to the goal from the succeeding spot.

So, there is where i made my mistake.  I created a false equivalency between DOF an Facemask.

thanks for the help going through it.

[BlindZebra]

For future reference, per Rulesman you must be SPECIFIC in your subject line.  This is not very specific...

[NVFOA_Ump]

It will be one untimed down from the B 1 1/2 yard line. Because there was an accepted team B penalty team A can move the ball between the the hash marks.

So you answer will be "D" none of the above.

So why isn't the answer A?  We have a team B PF-FM during a run with the end of the run the out-of-bounds spot (the 1 yard line).  The penalty enforcement for a team B PF is 15 yards or 1/2 the distance from the DB spot (the end of the run).  That leaves the ball at the 1/2 yard line and replay the try.  Team A has the choice of where to locate the ball for the next snap (anywhere between the hash marks).

[Kalle]

So why isn't the answer A?  We have a team B PF-FM during a run with the end of the run the out-of-bounds spot (the 1 yard line).  The penalty enforcement for a team B PF is 15 yards or 1/2 the distance from the DB spot (the end of the run).  That leaves the ball at the 1/2 yard line and replay the try.  Team A has the choice of where to locate the ball for the next snap (anywhere between the hash marks).

I agree with you. A is the correct answer.

[psv]

A is the correct answer, for those pining to know how the test scored it.

And, this is a pretty specific subject.  Its a test question

But, i will take my 5 demerits and move along.   

[bossman72]

So why isn't the answer A?  We have a team B PF-FM during a run with the end of the run the out-of-bounds spot (the 1 yard line).  The penalty enforcement for a team B PF is 15 yards or 1/2 the distance from the DB spot (the end of the run).  That leaves the ball at the 1/2 yard line and replay the try.  Team A has the choice of where to locate the ball for the next snap (anywhere between the hash marks).

+1

[#92]

Answer A mentions "inbounds lines". I can't find those defined in Rule 2-12, although until Rulebook 2015 the term is in the index, referring to Rule 2-12. So maybe that's an archaic name for the hash marks?

[NVFOA_Ump]

It's contained in 2-12-4:

ARTICLE 4. The boundary lines are the sidelines and the end lines.  The area enclosed by the boundary lines is “in bounds,’’ and the area  surrounding and including the boundary lines is “out of bounds.’’

When Ball Is Ready for Play
2-2 ARTICLE 4. A dead ball is ready for play when:
a. With the 40-second play clock running, an official places the ball at a hash mark or between the inbounds marks and steps away to his position.

You're point is correct though and it should say hash marks which is used interchangeably in the book with the term inbounds marks.  I think we would all agree that it would be better if the terms were used consistently everywhere in the book.

[Kalle]

Answer A mentions "inbounds lines". I can't find those defined in Rule 2-12, although until Rulebook 2015 the term is in the index, referring to Rule 2-12. So maybe that's an archaic name for the hash marks?

Not that archaic, in 2000 rule 2-12 used the term "inbounds lines" with "hash marks" as the secondary term. But it has been changed at some point since, and should be consistently changed in the entire book.

[Joe Stack]

in 2000 rule 2-12 used the term "inbounds lines" with "hash marks" as the secondary term. But it has been changed at some point since, and should be consistently changed in the entire book.

This was the case at least until 2009-10. I agree -- its been changed in a few places but still not completely updated to be consistent book wide.

[Willis]

Is "C" an option for team A?  In other words, does A have the option of accepting the results of the play and enforcing the penalty on the kickoff?  There are probably a few situations where an extra 15 yards on the kick would be more beneficial than the additional try for 2 points.

[Kalle]

Is "C" an option for team A?  In other words, does A have the option of accepting the results of the play and enforcing the penalty on the kickoff?  There are probably a few situations where an extra 15 yards on the kick would be more beneficial than the additional try for 2 points.

No. Rule 8-3-3-b-1 applies only for successful tries.