Author Topic: New Official Mechanics Question  (Read 6922 times)

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Offline UTchad

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New Official Mechanics Question
« on: September 09, 2016, 09:48:50 AM »
This is my first year officiating and I have been doing JV, Sophomore, and Little League games.

Yesterday I was doing a JV game and was in the U position in 4 man.  Here is my question.

Ball on A35 4th down and about 17.  A is in punt formation. So LJ moved behind Bs receiver.

I am watching As center. Once the snap happens and the kick is off it is to the HL sideline and is clearly OOB, during the play, and ball was clearly OOB by about 10 yards the LJ threw a flag for late hit on team B, and during our huddle to ensure the call was correct, the HL looked at me and said that it was my responsibility to blow the play dead because the ball was OOB, and he recommended to the R to waive the flag because a whistle wasn't blown. The R obliged and waived the flag. Team A was irate that the flag was waived off. Then the R got team A for Sideline warning.

Two questions... should the penalty had been waived? and who should have blown the whistle?

Offline IA Linesman

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 10:37:48 AM »
I have always been taught that the whistle doesn't stop the play, it acknowledges that the play is already over.  With that being said I also give leeway to 'late' hits if we have a slow whistle.  Every play is different but if you have one player 'giving up' on the play because it's obviously out of bounds to the players, then we have a high potential for UNR.  I'm also interested why this would be your whistle coming from the U.  I work it occasionally and my focus is never on the ball,  there is way too much traffic in the middle of the field on a scrimmage kick to be ball watching.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 10:45:40 AM »
1.  Why does the U even have a whistle?  A bit facetious, but the U would NEVER blow on a ball OOB.  How would he know?

2.  Why was there a flag for a sideline warning AFTER the play?  A sideline warning is for being in the box during a live ball.  You had a coach on the field arguing about the call.  That's either a USC foul, or it's not.  It isn't a "flag for a sideline warning".

3.  As for the late hit: judgment.  Was it a hit that would have been a foul during a live ball?  If so, then it's still a foul.  If not, was it reasonable for the player to know the play was over?  If he's playing on one side of the field, and the ball goes OOB on the opposite side, without a whistle, he has no reasonable idea that the play is over.  You have to allow for some otherwise legal contact after the ball is OOB IF the players did not have a reasonable way of knowing the play was dead.

Offline UTchad

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 10:51:13 AM »
So Atlanta Blue to answer your Q

1. I agree completely and that is what I said to them

2. I have no clue, why he chose to do that instead of a USC foul.

3. From what the LJ said yes it would have been a foul.

I am just coming to the conclusion that the crew I worked with yesterday is not a very good crew. I was filling in for someone. I'll be happy to get back to my normal crew.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 11:27:30 AM »
Just some general observations:  Any loose ball (kick, pass or fumble is NOT OOB until it TOUCHES something OOB, so there's no whistle until  the kick comes down.

It's helpful, when the Umpire is able to refocus attention down field, when a kick passes by IF & WHEN the action in front of him doesn't require his continued attention, but when that focus can shift, depends on what action is actually going on during THAT play.

Responsibility to blow play dead, rests primarily with the wing official on the sideline the ball went OOB, after which ALL officials should both mirror the clock stopping and sound their whistles to insure play stops across the field.  ANY official SEEING the ball touch down is authorized to stop the clock, but that is normally the closest official to the fact who initially responds.

Personal Contact fouls can occur while the play is unfolding (live ball foul) or after play has ended (dead ball foul).  The Referee has authority to reverse a call, although as you describe this event, he was WRONG in doing so, for the reason stated.  If the action itself was judged to merit a flag, depends entirely on the action, timing determines whether the foul is live ball or dead ball.

The Coach has a right to question the decision, but is required to do respectfully, and as indicated above a violation is either USC, or it is nothing, as determined by the R.  A violation would NOT relate to a "sideline warning".

Offline Curious

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 12:41:39 PM »
Why wouldn't the HL kill the play when the play went OOB on his sideline? hEaDbAnG :!# Sounds like it's a "let's blame the rookie" ploy!

As for the flag "waive-off"; as has been said, if it was a foul, penalize it - especially against a defenseless player.  If it was just a continuation a block or tackle, due to no whistle, waive it off. Players (especially those in the middle of the field) can't always know the status of a ball near the sideline.   



   

Offline UTchad

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 01:32:11 PM »
I think the HL was having a rough day. He had an inadvertent whistle about 5 plays before this particular play. Oh well... Glad you all were able to confirm me. But I agree with the poster above he wanted to blame the rookie because he was having a game like a rookie.


Offline GAHSUMPIRE

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 01:55:12 PM »
1.  Why does the U even have a whistle?  A bit facetious, but the U would NEVER blow on a ball OOB.  How would he know?


Agree with you 100%

The only time as an Umpire that I ever blow the whistle is for fouls that occur before the snap that would keep the ball from becoming live. Once the ball is legally snapped, there is no reason for the umpire to blow the whistle.

I use a lanyard for that very reason (and because my finger whistles kept breaking)- once the ball is snapped, I let the whistle fall out of my mouth and don't think about it until the next ready for play.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: New Official Mechanics Question
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 02:50:05 PM »
1.  Why does the U even have a whistle?

In our 5-man kickoff coverage mechanics, U lines up on the 20 yard line on the press box side.  He might easily be the covering official on a KO return play.

For scrimmage plays, I agree with you.