Hand-to-hand snap

[Hawkeye]

In 2011 rules 7-1-2,3,4 were reorganized and rewritten. Prior to that there was a restriction that only one player could be in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap. That restriction was removed as far as I can tell. Is it your understanding that a team could place two backs in position to receive the hand-to-hand snap?  Or was that restriction moved someplace else that I couldn't find. Thanks.

[NVFOA_Ump]

I believe it was at the same time (2011) that Rule 2-27-4-d was re-written to read:

d. Back.
1. A back is any Team A player who is not a lineman and whose head or shoulder does not break the plane of the line drawn through the waistline of the nearest Team A lineman.
2. A back is also the player in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap.
3. A lineman becomes a back before the snap when he moves to a position as a back and stops.

Pretty sure that there was a memo out indicating that use of the phrase "the player" limited the formation to one player in position to receive a hand to hand snap.  Still trying, but haven't located the memo in my trove of information.

[Hawkeye]

I did not catch the singular nature of "the player" in 2-27-4-d.

That's good enough for me.  I looked through the plethora of notes from 2011 and found nothing stating explicitly that there may still only be one player in this position, but based on the word "the" I'm going with that interpretation.

[bossman72]

The person that doesn't receive the snap is probably in no-man's land and would be an illegal formation.

[Joe Stack]

would be an illegal formation.

Even with only 4 players in the backfield? Rule reference?

[Legacy Zebra]

I believe what he's trying to reference would be 7-1-4-a-2, "All players must be either linemen or backs". But if there was a second player in position to take a hand to hand snap, that player's head would almost have to break the plane of the snapper's waistline. And assuming his shoulders are approximately parallel to the line of scrimmage, that makes him a lineman. So he could technically be a lineman while lined up behind another lineman. That would could make things interesting...

[bossman72]

If your helmet doesn't break the plane of the snapper's waist line and you don't clear the waistline of the nearest Team A lineman, then you're neither a lineman nor a back.  LegacyZebra has the reference.

[Hawkeye]

If your helmet doesn't break the plane of the snapper's waist line and you don't clear the waistline of the nearest Team A lineman, then you're neither a lineman nor a back.  LegacyZebra has the reference.

Unless you're in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap, in which case you are a back. (2-27-4-d-2)

[carrot81]

7-1-4-a-2 requires all offensive players to be lineman or backs.  The second player in position to receive a hand to hand snap meets the definition of back.  My opinion would be that this is not an illegal formation. What is the foul?   

[NVFOA_Ump]

7-1-4-a-2 requires all offensive players to be lineman or backs.  The second player in position to receive a hand to hand snap meets the definition of back.  My opinion would be that this is not an illegal formation. What is the foul?

The second player in position to receive a hand to hand snap meets the definition of back.

Actually I don't believe he meets either definition based on why the "d.2 paragraph" is there in rule 2.27.4.  It's there because he's a linemen (breaking the waist of the snapper when in position to receive a hand to hand snap), and a back (he's directly behind the line).  If he clearly met the definition of back then there's no need for 2.27.4.d.2 (the "QB exception").  Also note that the phrase states "the player" (not any players or the players) - it's singular.  The rules change documents and discussions that we had in 2011 made it pretty clear that this exception was for 1 player only.

I also believe that when this was changed in 2011 the idea of any player being in "no-man's land" no longer exists.  IMHO with the three definitions in 2.27.4.d (from 2011) it covers all possibilities. He's either a lineman (the snapper and all players breaking the waistline of the snapper), or a back (all players that are behind the NZ and NOT breaking the waistline of the snapper, and the QB (the player in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap)  - I don't see the "in-between" any more.

IMHO the foul would be a 7-1-4-a-2 violation (Illegal Formation) in that the "2nd QB" is partly both a lineman and a back since he can't get QB exception.