Author Topic: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"  (Read 2151 times)

Offline bama_stripes

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"Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« on: October 11, 2016, 08:02:00 AM »
A 1/20 at the A-25.  A1's pass is incomplete downfield, and B is flagged for:
  (a) defensive PI, or
  (b) roughing the passer.

What is the down and distance after enforcement, and how do I explain that to A's coach?

Offline FLAHL

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2016, 08:34:38 AM »

Both are 15 yards from the previous spot, so the ball goes to the A 40.
In A, it's 1st and 5 because we repeat the down and the line to gain is still the A 45.
In B, it's 1st and 10 because the penalty results in an automatic 1st down.
If both fouls happen on the same play, A would accept DPI and decline RTP.

Is this a trick question that I'm not getting?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 08:57:05 AM »
If this was a multiple foul, you could say :
  "You'll want the roughing the passer penalty as it awards you a first down."- except in this situation where 1st & 5 becomes better than 1st & 10.

If the coach was bellyaching that DPI is no longer an awarded first down, he would probably joint a large group of z^ that feel the same way. You could say :

  "Coach, BY RULE, pass interference is no longer an awarded first down. I don't write the rules, I only enforce them."
                      ....if he continues to rant....

  "Coach, you may want to get a job in the NFL where not only is it an awarded first down ,but also a spot foul."
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 10:08:51 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 09:44:46 AM »
Is this a trick question that I'm not getting?

Not a trick question.

My concern is how to explain to A's coach that he gets 1st-and-10 on the "more serious" foul
of RTP, and 1st-and-5 on the DPI foul, with the ball being placed at the same spot after enforcement.

Can he decline the auto 1st down provision of the RTP penalty?

Offline chriscwilson

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2016, 09:52:37 AM »
Explain RTP is an automatic first down by rule, as are all roughing penalties (kicker, holder, snapper).  DPI does not (since 2012??).

I don't believe he can decline the 1st down provision but can decline the yardage (ie, accept the foul, decline the penalty (yardage)).  Any yardage can be declined.


Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2016, 10:24:44 AM »
Not a trick question.

My concern is how to explain to A's coach that he gets 1st-and-10 on the "more serious" foul
of RTP, and 1st-and-5 on the DPI foul, with the ball being placed at the same spot after enforcement.

Can he decline the auto 1st down provision of the RTP penalty?
This was on the docket before (when DPI was an auto 1st down) because the following occurred:

   (1) 1st & 10 @ 50;
   (2) A holds @ A-48;
   (3) now 1st & 22 @ A-38;
   (4) DPI called;
   (5) coach wants yardage but not AFD as current series = 1st & 7;
   (6) A took the penalty and then turned ball over on downs;
   (7) happened in a state championship game.

Things that happen in a state championship game usually draw more attention than those that happen when two winless teams play (toilet bowl).

The general feelings of generally everyone on the committee felt that Rule 10 was complex enough without something like this being added...
   Sure, 1st & 7 is better than 1st & 10...but
     is 2nd & 3, 3rd & 2, 4th and 1.... ??? ??? :o ::) :P :-[ :-X :-*

  'Spect best kept as is tiphat:...

"COACH, BY RULE..."IS OFTEN THE BEST RESPONSE TO SITUATIONS LIKE THIS. LET HIS ANGER BE LEIVIED TOWARDS THE RULES COMMITTEE AND NOT YOU! tiphat:

Offline bossman72

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2016, 12:05:04 PM »
"Coach, that's the rule.  I don't know what else to tell you."

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2016, 07:11:49 PM »
Not a trick question.

My concern is how to explain to A's coach that he gets 1st-and-10 on the "more serious" foul
of RTP, and 1st-and-5 on the DPI foul, with the ball being placed at the same spot after enforcement.

Can he decline the auto 1st down provision of the RTP penalty?
Not trying to be cute or anything, but in all likelihood you won't have to explain the difference, especially if both fouls don't happen on the same play.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2016, 07:17:25 AM »
Not trying to be cute or anything, but in all likelihood you won't have to explain the difference, especially if both fouls don't happen on the same play.
The odds of both occurring after a foul of sorts happening on the previous play to make it 1st &20 would probably exceed a Red Sox-Cub World Series. tR:oLl tR:oLl

Offline scrounge

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Re: "Hey, That Ain't Fair!"
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2016, 07:33:54 AM »
I don't get why A's coach would be all that upset, or really care either way. "Coach, ball is on the 40 either way, you want 1st and 10 or 1st and 5?". Almost don't even have to ask.