Author Topic: Penalty on returned extra point block?  (Read 1031 times)

Offline bbeagle

  • *
  • Posts: 406
  • FAN REACTION: +5/-27
Penalty on returned extra point block?
« on: November 14, 2016, 08:31:53 AM »
I was wondering what would happen in the NFL (and NCAA) with the following scenario:

Denver blocks the extra point attempt and returns the ball all the way - ok 2 points.
Denver blocks the extra point attempt and returns the ball, but commits a penalty - ok, return is no good.

But what if Denver blocks the extra point attempt and returns the ball all the way to the 10, but is pulled down by a facemask at the 10? Does Denver get the ball? How would that work? Is it just a penalty that is penalized on the succeeding kickoff?

If so, can the kicking team do whatever it wants to do to stop the return team and suffer no consequences on that one play? Could a New Orleans player have thrown his helmet at the Denver player and tripped him up, and the game would still be tied with no consequence except for where the next kickoff would be kicked from? If so, it seems like a rule problem.

If you give Denver an 'extra point attempt' it also seems like a rule problem.

I'm just wondering how an offensive penalty after the turnover would be called?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 08:58:02 AM by bbeagle »

Offline Kalle

  • *
  • Posts: 2657
  • FAN REACTION: +96/-30
Re: Penalty on returned extra point block?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 09:24:43 AM »
Dunno about NFL, but in NCAA only UNS and flagrant PF penalties carry over to the succeeding kickoff, for fouls after the change of team possession. All other live-ball fouls are declined by rule. Try is over either with a score (if the non-fouling team scores) or no score (if neither team scores or the fouling team scores).

I think the reasoning is that the try down is more for team A, so fouls by team A after a COP are treated more lightly.

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 493
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty on returned extra point block?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 08:26:01 PM »
I went and looked this one up -- it's rule 11.3.3.3(c):

Quote
Item 3. Fouls by Team A. The following applies if there is a foul by Team A:
(a) If there is a foul by Team A during a successful Try, after the penalty, the Try shall be repeated, unless the penalty results in a loss of down.
(b) If the penalty for a foul results in a loss of down, the Try is unsuccessful, and there shall be no replay.
(c) All fouls committed after a change of possession will result in a distance penalty being assessed on the ensuing kickoff, provided the penalty does not negate a successful Try.
(d) All personal or unsportsmanlike conduct fouls will result in a distance penalty being assessed on the ensuing kickoff, provided the penalty does not negate a successful Try.
(e) If the foul results in a safety, Team B is awarded one point.

I think the take-home-message is, yes, New Orleans can foul with impunity to prevent the scoring play and Denver can only take the yardage on the ensuing kickoff. Of course, if it is a "palpably unfair act", the referee can award a score.

Offline bbeagle

  • *
  • Posts: 406
  • FAN REACTION: +5/-27
Re: Penalty on returned extra point block?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2016, 03:12:03 PM »
Interesting. Thank you for that, ncwingman.

Offline golfingref

  • *
  • Posts: 288
  • FAN REACTION: +10/-6
Penalty on returned extra point block?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 05:50:27 PM »
On the same play, wish I had the video, the Denver player leaped over the snapper legally, since there was no contact. However, the reason he was able to do so was that his fellow defensive lineman held the center down at the snap, preventing him from raising up. Should that have been a foul for defensive holding?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 493
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Penalty on returned extra point block?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 07:28:23 PM »
Short answer, no. Dean Blandino has a video explaining the play.

Longer answer, since it was an open handed push, it's legal. If he was underneath the snapper, grabbing and pulling, it would have been a hold.

Even longer answer... see the video.