Batting in the end zone

[dvasques]

Question 5 of the latest CFO quiz:

5. Extra period, first possession series. Fourth and ten at the B-25. B23 is standing in the end zone and leaps to bat the field goal attempt away from the cross bar. The ball bounces in the end zone where B23 recovers and returns the ball to the A-30 before carrying the ball out of bounds.
a. Team A’s possession series is over.
b. First and 10 for Team A at the 15. (correct answer)
c. B23’s foul is governed by postscrimmage kick enforcement.
d. No foul by B23.

REFERENCES: 9-4-1, 10-2-3
COMMENTS: B23 fouls by batting the ball in the end zone. There is no postscrimmage kick enforcement during the extra period, so the penalty is enforced at the previous spot and Team A continues its possession series.

AR 9-4-1-II
Team A attempts a field goal from Team B’s 30-yard line. A Team B player in the end zone leaps above the crossbar and bats the ball in flight. The ball goes into the end zone and is recovered by Team B. RULING: Foul for batting the ball in the end zone. The result of the play is a touchback. Safety if penalty is accepted.

What is the difference in enforcement from the two situations?

Why is it safety if penalty is accepted in the AR but it's not Team A's possession series is over on the quiz? If it's safety for an accepted penalty, wouldn't that end the game and, therefore, Team A's possession series?

[ChicagoZebra]

As noted in the answer, PSK does not exist in overtime, so our only enforcement option is from the previous spot.

In the AR you noted, the penalty by B falls under PSK - it satisfies all requirements. We therefore have a basic spot of the 20 yard line (touchback as the end of the kick), and foul behind the basic spot for an illegal bat. We enforce the penalty from the basic spot in the end zone = safety.

[Chiefump]

PSK does not apply on an unsuccessful field goal.

[Chiefump]

Correction: On a successful field goal.

[dvasques]

As noted in the answer, PSK does not exist in overtime, so our only enforcement option is from the previous spot.

In the AR you noted, the penalty by B falls under PSK - it satisfies all requirements. We therefore have a basic spot of the 20 yard line (touchback as the end of the kick), and foul behind the basic spot for an illegal bat. We enforce the penalty from the basic spot in the end zone = safety.

oh... man I missed that
so the fact that we can't enforce 3 and 1 means we can't have a safety by penalty?

[Legacy Zebra]

It's still 3 and 1, it's just a different 3 an 1. In regulation we would use the PSK spot as the basic spot and Team B as te team in possession. But in overtime you can't have PSK. So instead we use the previous spot since it's  a kick play and Team A as the team in possession since team possession has not changed yet. So it's a foul be the team not in possession, so you enforce from the basic spot (previous spot in this case).

[dvasques]

 
thanks!

[#92]

Rule 9-4-1-b reads "Any player may block a scrimmage kick in the field of play or the end zone.".

How is this compatible with A.R. 9-4-1-I and others?

[Kalle]

Rule 9-4-1-b reads "Any player may block a scrimmage kick in the field of play or the end zone.".

How is this compatible with A.R. 9-4-1-I and others?

A.R. 9-4-1-I does not deal with blocking, which is a special case of batting. See rule 2-11-5.

[Ironhead17]

I'm not NCAA but that seems a bit odd. You can't block a field goal attempt while in the endzone? If someone is able to jump and block it before it crosses the bar it's illegal batting? What is the purpose of this rule?

[ChicagoZebra]

I'm not NCAA but that seems a bit odd. You can't block a field goal attempt while in the endzone? If someone is able to jump and block it before it crosses the bar it's illegal batting? What is the purpose of this rule?

Why should it be legal? Players can only legally bat a ball in rather limited circumstances - those are "exceptions to the rule" that - in general - batting is an illegal act.

Kalle posted the rule reference earlier. Blocking a scrimmage kick is defined in NCAA as "an attempt to prevent the ball from crossing the neutral zone". You cannot legally block a kick after it has crossed the NZ.

[Kalle]

You cannot legally block a kick after it has crossed the NZ.

You can, but it has to be within three yards (re 6-3-1-b), so it could be from the end zone. But, in the action describe, it definitely is not blocking but simple batting.