Author Topic: 2017 UIL Exceptions  (Read 862 times)

Offline ElvisLives

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2017 UIL Exceptions
« on: May 19, 2017, 09:21:54 AM »
In comparing the 2017 UIL Exceptions to the 2016-17 NCAA Rules, the last Exception (50) essentially says that UIL doesn't use replay.  But Exception 41 says, "If Instant Replay is used, the DQ is subject to review."  It also talks about what happens when the RO reverses the DQ.
What's the deal?

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 12:41:15 PM »
I notice that as well.  Interesting.

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2017, 04:26:43 PM »
didnt UIL start using reply recently in the state championship games?
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline TxSkyBolt

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2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2017, 05:46:53 PM »
It's been discussed for the Championship games, but not implemented


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Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 07:38:50 AM »
didnt UIL start using reply recently in the state championship games?

No.  They don't have the equipment (yet), experience or other IR personnel in place to make it happen.  Could you imagine never having worked a game with IR and then having to do it in a state championship game, where you're probably already a bit nervous?  Recipe for disaster.  Personally, I think we officiate those state championship games just like all of the other playoff games. 

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2017, 10:56:56 AM »
OK, it sounds like the UIL will not use replay (at least not for 2017).  So, can we expect some form of clarification from either the UIL or TASO on this?

Offline bctgp

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2017, 09:48:41 AM »
In an informal discussion, I had the opportunity to ask a UIL rep if they were considering instant replay and the answer was no. Obviously, things can change but I don't think it is something they are discussing or looking at actively.  I think it would be challenging to implement at High School level in my humble opinion.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2017, 10:07:16 AM »
Totally agree.  But I just wonder where the language in the Exception came from.   

Offline fencewire

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2017, 11:54:33 PM »
Why is it challenging? You have more camera angles than many D1 games with replay.  There must be several replay officials and communicators that are TASO members.  D2/D3 playoffs introduce replay in the semis and finals.  You don't officiate the game any differently with or without replay.  So what's the only other issue, that some things that aren't seen in real time, but everyone on Jerry TV can see in full HD slow motion can be corrected? I don't see how it could be a bad thing.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 06:09:48 AM »
Why is it challenging? You have more camera angles than many D1 games with replay.  There must be several replay officials and communicators that are TASO members.  D2/D3 playoffs introduce replay in the semis and finals.  You don't officiate the game any differently with or without replay.  So what's the only other issue, that some things that aren't seen in real time, but everyone on Jerry TV can see in full HD slow motion can be corrected? I don't see how it could be a bad thing.

I've been the IR technician for all UTSA home games for the last 6 years.  My H is the IR communicator for UTSA home games and worked as communicator in a D1 bowl game this last year.  We have the experience running equipment and a IR booth within TASO.  I can assure you, having officials never having worked a game with IR is a very big challenge in a game where there are so many eyes on them already.  It would be a very bad idea to put pagers on all of the officials in a state championship game who have never had to work with IR before.  Aside from this, why would we want to have IR anyway?  Also, are all of the state championship games in HD?  It is certainly possible, but the  problem isn't with technicians, communicators or the IR official.  The problem is having new crews at the state championship level each year that will be working with IR for the first time in a game where they are already nervous and need to be fully focused.

Offline fencewire

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 06:52:04 AM »
So since the addition of a pager adds so much stress to the officials using IR for their first game with it, why does the NCAA jeopardize their D2/3 semi/championships by adding this undo burden? 

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 07:27:26 AM »
So since the addition of a pager adds so much stress to the officials using IR for their first game with it, why does the NCAA jeopardize their D2/3 semi/championships by adding this undo burden?

I would imagine most of those guys have worked with IR before.  And, it isn't just the pager, and you know that.  It is the whole process, sideline comms, game stoppage, discussion with IRO, announcements, etc.  Why change all of our mechanics for one game a year?  And, for what?  A typical game has zero calls overturned. 

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 08:39:23 AM »
The merits of Replay for UIL can be debated ad nauseum.  I'm just wondering if we'll get a set of corrected UIL Exceptions that fixes this, and other, rule conflicts.  I don't know who writes the UIL Exceptions, but they have done some very curious things.  Fortunately, the other things do not have the impact that "Replay - yes" or "Replay - no" would have.  For example, Exception 37 attempts to delete a reference in Rule 3-4-3 that simply isn't there.  Not really a big deal, because we know the UIL doesn't want the 10-second subtraction, but how does something like attempting to delete a phantom reference happen?

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 08:44:34 AM »
Oops.  Misspelled "ad nauseam."  Sorry. :)

Offline Rulesman

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 10:55:52 AM »
I would imagine most of those guys have worked with IR before.
Most have not and I've often asked the same question. But... there are D-1 guys running the replay booth if that's any consolation.
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2017, 01:13:25 PM »
I worked with a DII crew in a semi last year. None had ever worked IR. R was solid and I think we had 4 stoppages and 1 reversal. Worked flawlessly. No issues. It takes a dedicated R to learn the rules and process before the game.


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Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 06:45:15 AM »
I worked with a DII crew in a semi last year. None had ever worked IR. R was solid and I think we had 4 stoppages and 1 reversal. Worked flawlessly. No issues. It takes a dedicated R to learn the rules and process before the game.


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I've seen several CUSA get really screwed up by it.  A lot depends on the IRO as well.  Those guys have to make quick decisions so they cannot be indecisive and disrupt the flow of the game. 

Offline psv

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Re: 2017 UIL Exceptions
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 02:05:53 PM »
I would love to see it implemented for the State Championship games at least.  As someone who has been a victim of "The Screen of Doom",  I would like the ability to get it right.  Everyone and their dog can see it.  I can look up and see it (I didnt at the time because I couldnt change it anyway). It is right there blatant as all get out that its wrong... but we cant do anything about it.  I dont like that. 

What was it, 3 years ago, Navasota vs Argyle, they could have really used it then....  Cost Argyle the game.

TexDoc laid out some arguments, but I really dont find most of them very persuasive.  Mainly, these are veterans working these games, so i think the added twist of replay will not be too disruptive.  People are going to mess up with or without replay, but it hurts our credibility (I think) when we cant correct something that is obviously wrong. 

The one argument i did find persuasive was the R's (and everyone else) needs to bone up on Rule 12.  Most of us ignore that if we arent on the college track.

That is my .02 worth.