Author Topic: American Pride....  (Read 1114 times)

Offline Ralph Damren

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American Pride....
« on: June 16, 2017, 09:31:31 AM »
 Watching the annual congressional baseball game last night gave me a strong sense of patriotism. :patrioticon: My high school baseball umping season has finished and summer
ball is about to begin. To me, that consists of umpiring American Legion games. Today
I received their following edict :

     THE FOLLOWING ARE IMMEDIATE EJECTIONS WITH NO DISCUSSION :

(1) PROFANE LANGUAGE
                 (2) OBSCENE GESTURES
                 (3) THROWING OF EQUIPMENT
                 (4) NOT STANDING AND REMOVING HATS FOR NATIONAL ANTHEM

I wanted to share this with all of you as many may feel like me that sometimes the "freedom of speech and expression" can go just so far.

MORALE : WHEN YOU BUYTHE UNIFORMS YOU RULE ON WHAT YOU CAN'T DO TO KEEP THEM tiphat:

 :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon:
 

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 03:48:58 PM »
Seems like a simple, rational codification of what most people assumed was a long standing requirement. It's sad there are still a few people who have to see reasonable expectations like this to be reduced to written instructions before complying with them.

Offline zoom

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American Pride....
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 06:56:48 AM »
For American Legion games, it makes sense to require proper respect for the anthem.  It is the American Legion, after all.  If you don't like it, you can go play somewhere else.  In high school games, however, this requirement would make no sense. 

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« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 09:21:22 AM by zoom »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 09:02:38 AM »
  In high school games, however, this requirement would make no sense. 

Why on earth, would you think that?  If YOU were attending any sporting  (crowd) event in a foreign country, wouldn't you have been taught to simply pay appropriate respect, to the host nation, as the attending hosts do?  Unless of course, your attendance at the even is intended to demonstrate a personal political position, then behaving rudely is a choice only you can make.

When the American National Anthem is played, here, it is expected each of us show the level of respect this nation (flag, anthem) has EARNED, whether we happen to agree with every action and behavior taken since our inception, or not. Adoration, or even agreement, is not required, appropriate respect is.

Then again, if your intention is to call attention to yourself, (because you were lucky enough to be a citizen of the U.S.) you actually have the absolute RIGHT to make as much of a spectacle of yourself as only YOU choose, although with choices often come consequences.

Offline zoom

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 09:19:47 AM »
Why on earth, would you think that? 

There is no legal penalty if you do anything in particular with regard to the flag or the anthem.  I didn't mean to disagree with your sentiments and I understand your feelings, certainly.  No disrespect was intended.  High schools that participate in their state association, however, would never be able to impose such a rule. 


It's interesting that, while I also umpire a lot of American Legion games, I haven't seen that rule yet.  I also have never heard the national anthem being played before a Legion game.  I wonder if this is the national expectation. 

*EDIT* I see that at the 2016 Fall Meeting of the American Legion, a resolution was passed that said the
Quote
organization's policy is regardless of the activity anyone not showing proper respect during the anthem shall be removed from the activity
(Resolution 16)

Some states, like Connecticut, have made their own resolutions as a result of this which empowered the umpires to enforce this as Ralph posted above.  I wonder if others are leaving this enforcement up to coaches...

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« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 10:26:17 AM by zoom »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2017, 10:56:41 AM »
High schools that participate in their state association, however, would never be able to impose such a rule. 

Are there any actual "rules" or "laws" preventing ANY school ANYWHERE in the US from playing the National Anthem before ANY gathering?  Similarly, are there any rules or laws that would prohibit ANY student from behaving respectfully during the playing of the National Anthem during any School sanctioned gathering?

It seems equally reasonable, that ANY player on a School team would be EXPECTED to behave respectfully while publicly representing any School team.

Along with having "enough mountains to climb, rivers to cross" we more than enough silly rules to last forever.  Whether a School decides to play the National Anthem before (any) gatherings sounds like a "School"(League, Conference, etc) decision, as is how they EXPECT students to behave respectfully, should the anthem be played.

Offline zoom

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2017, 11:16:48 AM »
Are there any actual "rules" or "laws" preventing ANY school ANYWHERE in the US from playing the National Anthem before ANY gathering?  Similarly, are there any rules or laws that would prohibit ANY student from behaving respectfully during the playing of the National Anthem during any School sanctioned gathering?

It seems equally reasonable, that ANY player on a School team would be EXPECTED to behave respectfully while publicly representing any School team.

Along with having "enough mountains to climb, rivers to cross" we more than enough silly rules to last forever.  Whether a School decides to play the National Anthem before (any) gatherings sounds like a "School"(League, Conference, etc) decision, as is how they EXPECT students to behave respectfully, should the anthem be played.
Right, so it is up to the school to enforce whatever sanctions they might impose, not the officials.  I don't believe it will happen with regards to a high school game for the reasons I stated above, but I didn't say that schools couldn't make rules and enforce them.

I recall that a few players in high schools around here knelt during the anthem.  One such example is here:
https://www.necn.com/news/new-england/High-School-Football-Player-Kneels-During-National-Anthem-393115111.html

I was referring to the implications the Legion rule will have on how I, as an umpire, will have to react if I see this before a game.  I hope that clarifies my point.

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« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 11:41:52 AM by zoom »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2017, 02:01:55 PM »
Thank you for clarifying, I absolutely agree this would be something the School (league, Conference) should establish and regulate.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2017, 11:37:10 AM »
In Maine, nearly all American Legion games are preceded by Our National Anthem. If a PA system is not available, a Legionnaire with a trumpet or soloist will lead. Over the years, I've seen a player, and even an umpire sing solo (never a coach :)) and have never viewed any disrespect. During high school games, if there is a PA system, the National Anthem will be played. In American Legion post season games, both teams also stand at the foul lines and repeat after a Legionnaire, a pledge to be a good kid .

I was taught when I was young about our flag and our National Anthem, and the importance of removing my hat and place over my heart while standing in respect. I was also taught that when another country's anthem is being played, I should stand and remove my hat but placing it over my heart wasn't necessary. I believe that , too, is the suggestion for those visiting from other countries to ours.

I have rarely agreed with everything our country is doing but have always been proud to be an American. I'm happy to see the American Legion taking this stance and plan to mention these four issues at our home plate meeting with the coaches which precedes our National Anthem.

GOD BLESS AMERICA....
  GOD BLESS AMERICA'S NATIONAL PASTIME....
     GOD BLESS ALL YOU GUYS FOR YOUR TIME SPENT IN MAKING THE YOUTH OF TODAY,
          THE LEADERS OF TOMMORROW.

 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 02:59:26 PM »
Somehow, life seemed so much simpler when common sense and really basic civility and respect was taught, learned, expected and routinely practiced, before the basic concepts of assimilation and "E pluribus Unum" ("Out of many, one", Our Nation's motto) were forgotten, or ignored, by too many.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2017, 09:20:16 AM »
It does drive me a bit bananas when I see any college or pro game that during the Anthem you player looks down and cannot even look up out of respect.
Even in NHL, I understand players are from CAN & Europe, but at least stand and look.

Online Kalle

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 09:37:14 AM »
Even in NHL, I understand players are from CAN & Europe, but at least stand and look.

I can't speak for other European countries but at least all Finnish players should have been taught to respect all national flags during anthems. You might not respect a particular government but you should respect the country in the sense of its people.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 09:53:35 AM »
+1
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline NewEra1005

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2017, 04:44:12 PM »
The Anthem wasn't written for everyone who lives in America. Nor does it represents all people that live in America. To each his own.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: American Pride....
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2017, 09:05:50 AM »
The Anthem wasn't written for everyone who lives in America. Nor does it represents all people that live in America. To each his own.

"To each his own", is fine, but like everything else in life, it has limits.  That may be why for countless generations people have been taught manners and about respecting the interests of others, which some learn better than others. 

Thankfully, in this Country, we can pretty much, behave as we choose, but that extends to how others may choose to respond, or react, to our choice of the behavior we exhibit.  Respect and civility are most assuredly two way streets, what we have every right to choose to display, often dictates what we receive in return.

What we choose to display, is our own choice, but the impact of that display and the consequences we may likely endure, due to our chosen display, is beyond OUR exclusive control, and not protected by whining.