Author Topic: Momentum  (Read 751 times)

Offline NCVAReferee

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Momentum
« on: July 12, 2017, 09:22:41 PM »
A 3/G @ B-10.  B44 intercepts A's pass at the B-3 and his momentum carries him into the EZ. While in the EZ B44 fumbles the ball forward out of the EZ into the field of play.  The fumble remains airborne and is muffed back into the EZ by A88.  B44 recovers and is downed in his own EZ.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 05:43:59 AM »
Don't have my books here, but on the field I'd rule 1/10 for B at the 3.  The muff by A would be ignored if the ball had stayed in the EZ, and I don't believe this constitutes a new force by A.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 08:43:52 AM »
Momentum - For momentum to apply the ball has to stay in the end zone or go out of bounds from the ends zone.  Once the ball comes out momentum no longer applies.

Force - A's muff put the ball in the endzone.  If A recovers they have a TD.  But since B recovered it is a touch back.

B's ball 1st and 10 on their 20 yard line.

Offline skip1

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 09:24:30 AM »
The force that put the ball into the the EZ is B44's fumble. There is no new fore by a as the ball was not grounded before A88  muffed it. Result of the play would be a safety.

Offline prab

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 09:30:11 AM »

Force - A's muff put the ball in the endzone.  If A recovers they have a TD.  But since B recovered it is a touch back.


If the fumble remains airborne, doesn't 2-13-3 come into play?  "The muffing or batting of a pass, kick, or fumble in flight does not considered a new force." 

Therefore, wouldn't B be responsible for forcing the ball into B's end zone and the subsequent recovery there by B be a safety?

Offline prab

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 09:31:29 AM »
skip 1 types faster than I do.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 09:31:58 AM »
"2.13.1 ... After a fumble, kick, or backward pss has been grounded, a new force may result from a bat, an illegal kick or a muff."

Good call by you, bad mistake by me.

Back to the books.

Offline NCVAReferee

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 04:25:52 PM »
Isn't the ball declared dead in Team B's end zone regardless of whether the ball was fumbled out of the end zone in this scenario?

The exception at 8-5-2a states "...and his original momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball is declared dead in his team's possession or it goes out of bounds in the end zone, the ball belongs to the team in possession at the spot where the pass or fumble was intercepted or recovered."

In this scenario, even if the ball is fumbled out of the end zone by B and comes back in without a new force by A, isn't the momentum exception still met?  What is the rule reference that would cover where B puts the ball in the EZ by his fumble and therefore this play being a safety?

Offline Bullycon

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 08:49:17 AM »
In this scenario, even if the ball is fumbled out of the end zone by B and comes back in without a new force by A, isn't the momentum exception still met?  What is the rule reference that would cover where B puts the ball in the EZ by his fumble and therefore this play being a safety?

The 8-5-2a exception is only when a player carries the ball across the goal line. Once the ball leaves the end zone and returns back across, it's now the fumble that puts the ball in the end zone and 8-5-2b applies.

Offline NCVAReferee

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2017, 09:07:56 AM »
Bully - I've always officiated this play the way you are calling it.  However, I'm troubled by the language of how this exception is written after closely looking at it.  Seems our ruling is an interpretation.  The way the exception is written to me would mean the fumble back into the EZ would still be subject to the momentum rule.  He still meets the "original momentum" and the "ball declared dead in the EZ in his team possession."

Maybe I'm overthinking this, or maybe this is another rule that is poorly written...

Offline VA Official

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Re: Momentum
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2017, 10:45:40 AM »
Here's how you need to picture this play. A force is a force, no matter if it's a ball being carried or fumbled. What happens if A carries the ball out of the EZ, then returns? Momentum is cancelled. Same thing happens if his fumble (also a force) goes out of the EZ then returns without a new force imparted on it. Using 8-5-2b's wording, B's fumble forced the loose ball out of the EZ, and the same force was responsible for it returning "from the field of play to or across his goal line." Safety. Just picture him "carrying" the fumble, and it will lead you to the right result.

As said before, the momentum exception only applies to 8-5-2a. The reason that a fumble out of the back of the EZ, or a fumble that stays in the EZ that's recovered by B, still results in a momentum exception is because the requirements of 8-5-2b are not met to make it a safety. 8-5-2b requires the loose ball to cross "from the field of play to or across the goal line," and that doesn't happen in that case. Remember, the definition of force states that force only applies in one direction, from the field of play into the EZ.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 10:57:24 AM by VA Official »