Author Topic: Kick Catch Interference  (Read 4555 times)

Offline VA Official

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM »
I'm not trying to be difficult but do have something that references that?  My rule book gives 3 options.

10-1-1 in combination with KCI provides this option. The team accepts the penalty and elects your option B, but declines the yardage, creating option D.

Offline fcardon99

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2017, 03:37:22 PM »
So every foul has that option in combination with 10-1-1.  The chances of a coach choosing that option are slim to none.  Even for KCI.  The only time I've seen it invoked is on a try and the coach tells us he doesn't want the yardage.  To give that option on any other foul would be a waste of time, KCI included.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2017, 03:58:05 PM »
Not necessarily. If I'm on offense trying to run out the clock, and the defense fouls, I might want the penalty so I can relplay the down, but refuse the distance to get a short stick. For example, a 5yd face mask on a 7 yd run. I might want to replay 1st and three instead of taking the penalty distance and having 1st and 10. Maybe not, but at least I have that option. I'm sure there are other good reasons for providing the no-yardage option as well.


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Offline fcardon99

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2017, 04:25:41 PM »
That's not the point.  I'm asking, why would you always include that option on KCI fouls?  I'm sure there are more examples where declining the yardage is wise, just not often enough that it would be included on every KCI.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 05:00:59 PM »
I'm not trying to be difficult but do have something that references that?  My rule book gives 3 options.
You're overthinking it.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline fcardon99

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2017, 05:37:54 PM »
How do you figure I'm overthinking it when all I want to do is what the rule book says instead of mixing and matching rules just to give an option that will more than likely never be chosen.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Have a good season.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2017, 05:40:58 PM »
That's not the point.  I'm asking, why would you always include that option on KCI fouls?  I'm sure there are more examples where declining the yardage is wise, just not often enough that it would be included on every KCI.
Well, pragmatically I can remember only 2 KCI's in the past 3 years, and to be honest the coach made the decision on all three before I could even present the options. So I guess it's really not that big of a deal.


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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2017, 07:59:52 PM »
How do you figure I'm overthinking it when all I want to do is what the rule book says instead of mixing and matching rules just to give an option that will more than likely never be chosen.
You have to mix and match rules in many situations to come up with a "rule book" reason. Will the "4th option" ever be chosen in this case? Probably not, but "never" is an awfully long time.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline fcardon99

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2017, 05:53:47 AM »
What's your point??

Let's say there is a fair catch made by R1 and then K23 drills him.  Are you going to ask the coach if he wants to decline the yardage for the personal foul and just go from the fair catch spot?  If you combine the PF foul with 10-1-1 that would be an option, but are you going to do it?

Offline Eastshire

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2017, 06:29:16 AM »
What's your point??

Let's say there is a fair catch made by R1 and then K23 drills him.  Are you going to ask the coach if he wants to decline the yardage for the personal foul and just go from the fair catch spot?  If you combine the PF foul with 10-1-1 that would be an option, but are you going to do it?

The point is there is a fourth option. Everyone has agreed that you wouldn't actually bring it up as it's incredibly unlikely to be selected but if the coach wants it for whatever reason he can have it.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2017, 06:34:16 AM »
So the NFHS rules (10.1.1) also state that the captains, not the coaches, are the ones notified and select from the penalty enforcement options.  Are you going to follow the rules there and let the captains try to sort out all of the options (3 or 4?), or are you going to give the most likely option 1st and pause for a few seconds to see if that's all that's needed?
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Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2017, 06:46:38 AM »
Up until a few years ago, the options for R were 15 yards & rekick, awarded FC at the spot, or result of the play.  Ralph & his compatriots wisely added the 15+AFC option.

You might argue that "result of the play" isn't really a penalty, but it's still an option.

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2017, 07:36:19 AM »
Up until a few years ago, the options for R were 15 yards & rekick, awarded FC at the spot, or result of the play.  Ralph & his compatriots wisely added the 15+AFC option.

You might argue that "result of the play" isn't really a penalty, but it's still an option.
"The result of the play" is declining the penalty and as Bama said isn't really a penalty option. We didn't take it out, as this long thread illustrates, there may be some situation where it might be beneficial to take the AFC without the yardage (as of yet, no one has figured out when).

Time for a quiz.....when would the clock start ??? ??? ???

(1) 4th & 6 @50, R fair catches @ R's 30 but is  ^flag as 12th R player fails to get off the field prior to snap (doesn't participate).

(2) Same as above, only kick rolls dead at R's 30.

(3) Same field position but K is  ^flag for KCI @ R's 10 and R chooses previous spot enforcement.

You make the call....

Offline fcardon99

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2017, 08:19:37 AM »
Up until a few years ago, the options for R were 15 yards & rekick, awarded FC at the spot, or result of the play.  Ralph & his compatriots wisely added the 15+AFC option.

You might argue that "result of the play" isn't really a penalty, but it's still an option.

This is my point.  "Awarded fair catch at the spot" is not an option any longer.  If they choose to to take the awarded fair catch +15 and then wave the 15 yards that's up to them, but I wouldn't give "Awarded fair catch at the spot" as a 4th option.  That's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. 

Offline VALJ

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2017, 10:12:13 AM »
Time for a quiz.....when would the clock start ??? ??? ???

(1) 4th & 6 @50, R fair catches @ R's 30 but is  ^flag as 12th R player fails to get off the field prior to snap (doesn't participate).

(2) Same as above, only kick rolls dead at R's 30.

(3) Same field position but K is  ^flag for KCI @ R's 10 and R chooses previous spot enforcement.

You make the call....

1 - the clock stopped due to the fair catch.  Replay the down as 4th and 1 from the 45; start the clock on the snap.
2 - Replay the down as in 1, but the clock starts on the ready, unless the foul occurred in the last 2 minutes and R chooses to start on the snap
3 - Replay the down as 4th and 21 from the K 35.  The clock starts on the ready, unless the foul occurred in the last 2 minutes and R chooses to start on the snap

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Kick Catch Interference
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2017, 12:03:13 PM »
1 - the clock stopped due to the fair catch.  Replay the down as 4th and 1 from the 45; start the clock on the snap.
2 - Replay the down as in 1, but the clock starts on the ready, unless the foul occurred in the last 2 minutes and R chooses to start on the snap
3 - Replay the down as 4th and 21 from the K 35.  The clock starts on the ready, unless the foul occurred in the last 2 minutes and R chooses to start on the snap

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