Crossing the plane

[OSU65]

Confused non-ref here. I have heard announcers talking about breaking the plane of the goal line. Watching games it appears that the goal line plane is on the field side of the white line.
When the ball is placed on the field after a touchback the nose of the ball appears to be placed touching the edge of the white line. That also happens going the other way.

1. Where is the plane of the goal line?

2 Where is the plane of a yard line in the field of play? The middle of the line, or at the leading edge depending on which direction the team is moving down the field?

[FLbackjudge]

1.  The entire width of the goal line is in the end zone, so a ball breaks the plane of the goal line if any part of the ball crosses the field side of the stripe.

2.  I'm not sure the plane of a yard line is important.  The ball is ordinarily placed with its forward point on the "back side" of a hash mark, so a first down would be awarded if it reached the "back side" of a hash mark ten yards downfield.

[ElvisLives]

Confused non-ref here. I have heard announcers talking about breaking the plane of the goal line. Watching games it appears that the goal line plane is on the field side of the white line.
When the ball is placed on the field after a touchback the nose of the ball appears to be placed touching the edge of the white line. That also happens going the other way.

1. Where is the plane of the goal line?

2 Where is the plane of a yard line in the field of play? The middle of the line, or at the leading edge depending on which direction the team is moving down the field?

You are correct that the "planes" of the goal lines are the field side edges of the goal lines.  They are exactly 100 yards apart (in theory, anyway  ).  Any time a live ball in player possession of an 'attacking' player touches or penetrates (in part or in whole) this plane, a touchdown is scored.  Conversely, if the ball is dead by rule in the possession of the defending team, and the ball is touching or penetrating (in part or in whole) this plane, that is either a safety or a touchback (dependent on impetus).

The yard lines are just lines - not planes.  All yard lines are 4" wide, and centered on the lines that are at 5-yard intervals between the goal lines. You have discovered a slight idiosyncrasy with the layout of the field, in that, for example, the edges of the 20 yard lines nearest the goal lines, are actually only 19 yards, 2 feet, and 10" from the goal lines.

Following a touchback, by rule, the ball is placed at the 20 (or 25) yard line - not 20 (or 25) yards from the goal line.  That's why you see the nose of the ball right on the edge of those lines following a touchback.  Note that thereafter, when the ball is advanced on or beyond any part of 30 (or 35) yard line, there is no need for a measurement - that's a first down.

FYI, you may also notice that, following a change of possession, like a kickoff, punt, interception, fumble, etc., the game officials will try to, similarly, place the ball on a yard line, and not leave it between yard lines.  That is mostly for convenience in establishing the line-to-gain exactly on the yard line 10 yards away.  Again, if the ball is advanced on/beyond the line to gain, no need for a measurement.  Coaches know this, and are OK with it, because it helps maintain the "pace of play."  (Anybody heard that term recently?)

Hope this helps.

Robert

[Kalle]

The yard lines are just lines - not planes.  All yard lines are 4" wide, and centered on the lines that are at 5-yard intervals between the goal lines. You have discovered a slight idiosyncrasy with the layout of the field, in that, for example, the edges of the 20 yard lines nearest the goal lines, are actually only 19 yards, 2 feet, and 10" from the goal lines.

Interestingly, if you start from A-20 after a touchback and have four RTP fouls in a row (with incomplete passes), you end up with 1st and goal from more than 10 yards away from the goal line (At least I hope nobody in their right mind sets up chains)

There's also another inconsistency in the field definitions. The rule book defines the full length of the field (including end zones) to be 360 feet ie. 120 yards and the field of play to be 300 feet ie. 100 yards. But, it measures the end zones from the end zone side edge of the goal line, which may be up to eight inches wide ie 2/3 of a foot. OK, this is not much, but it too goes to show that this isn't an exact science.

[ElvisLives]

Interestingly, if you start from A-20 after a touchback and have four RTP fouls in a row (with incomplete passes), you end up with 1st and goal from more than 10 yards away from the goal line.

I've been practicing this announcement for the last RPS penalty:
Roughing the passer, number 55, defense.  That's a 15 yard penalty; first down at the 10 yard and 2" line.   

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There's also another inconsistency in the field definitions. The rule book defines the full length of the field (including end zones) to be 360 feet ie. 120 yards and the field of play to be 300 feet ie. 100 yards. But, it measures the end zones from the end zone side edge of the goal line, which may be up to eight inches wide ie 2/3 of a foot. OK, this is not much, but it too goes to show that this isn't an exact science.

No doubt in my mind this is a graphics error.  The end zone is 30 feet deep, and begins a the plane of the goal line, and the entire goal line is in the end zone.  The graphic is just wrong.  Good eye, Kalle.  I hadn't noticed until you brought this up.

[OSU65]

Thank you all for the responses. What confused me is that I thought that when the ball was placed at the 25 the nose of the ball would be 25 yards from the plane of the end zone. Yard line vs "yard plane" answers that question.
What prompted this question? When watching a game on tv they show an artificial line on the screen to indicate the distance for the next first down. I just figured that the computer generated a line flush with the nose of the ball then extended it 2 inches on each side of that yard "plane" (actually a yard line I now know) just so it could be seen by the viewer. Apparently the artificial line is actually all to the goal line side of that yard line.

Since the lines are colored does that mean that a color blind member of the officiating crew can't see them   

[ElvisLives]

When watching a game on tv they show an artificial line on the screen to indicate the distance for the next first down. I just figured that the computer generated a line flush with the nose of the ball then extended it 2 inches on each side of that yard "plane" (actually a yard line I now know) just so it could be seen by the viewer. Apparently the artificial line is actually all to the goal line side of that yard line.

Since the lines are colored does that mean that a color blind member of the officiating crew can't see them   

I'm begging you...  Other than the actual video images, please, please, please pay absolutely NO attention to anything that is provided by the TV production and/or the broadcasters.  Those superimposed images of scrimmage lines, lines-to-gain, etc., are just general references.  Not only are they not official, they are not accurate at all.  Then, compound that with the total nonsense spewed by the broadcasters with respect to rules and/or officiating matters, and you get disinformation only rivaled by political campaigns.  The only guy that knows what he is talking about is Pereira (from first rate experience at all levels).

I must admit though, I keep looking for those lines on the field, and I just can't find 'em.   

Robert

[Kalle]

Since the lines are colored does that mean that a color blind member of the officiating crew can't see them   

We have some green grass fields over here which are marked with red lines. And we do have some color-blind officials...

[OSU65]

I'm retired AF and an engineer so my curiosity is that I just to be able to understand what the rules say and not the announcers. I did the same thing about the golf rules. I didn't know them, and knew I didn't know, but guys I played with didn't know them either,but we're quick to opine.

The one call I know Herbstreit misses is the "They'll call that every time ..... pass interference interference when the defender doesn't look back for the ball. Well either he's wrong or you guys are missing a lot of calls.

Not trying to start a PI thread. Just agreeing with the comment on announcers. Heck....I haven't seen an NCAA official miss a call yet the entire season

[ump_ben]

Interestingly, if you start from A-20 after a touchback and have four RTP fouls in a row (with incomplete passes), you end up with 1st and goal from more than 10 yards away from the goal line (At least I hope nobody in their right mind sets up chains)

K, I'll bite, why wouldn't that be 1st and 10 at the B-20?

[ElvisLives]

K, I'll bite, why wouldn't that be 1st and 10 at the B-20?

Well, there's the 'crew' thing again.  Four consecutive 15 yard penalties from the previous spot would only put us at the B-20.  We would still need a 10 yard penalty from the previous spot, to put the ball at the B-10.  So, the very technical announcement would be something silly like, "Holding, number 33, defense.  That's a 10-yard penalty - first down at the B-10 yards and 2 inch line."

Thanks for saving the crew.  But, then, 5 consecutive fouls against Team B...  You're 'save' might just be postponing getting run outta town, at some places. 

Robert