Author Topic: Double Enforcement  (Read 754 times)

Offline RogerRef

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Double Enforcement
« on: September 05, 2017, 10:10:39 AM »
Saw an interesting thing this weekend,  not sure if it was the proper enforcement. I last officiated a game  5 years ago, so I'm not sure if this is something I forgot, or if the enforcement was wrong.

Team A punts, punter gets the kick away, foot comes down and touches the ground, but the punter kind of bounces into a rusher from B and hits the ground. Ref throws a flag at the rusher, indicating a running into the kicker.

The rusher then looks at the referee and holds his hands up like he did nothing.  May have also said something to the referee.  The ref then throws his bean bag in the air, indicating a second penalty. 

The crew enforced the roughing penalty as well as an unsportsmanlike penalty.  Total yardage they moved the ball from the previous spot was 24 yards.  So two issues:

1) Both fouls occurred during the play.  The referee did not signal a dead ball for the unsportsmanlike. I believe only one penalty should be enforced.  Am I missing something?

2) Assuming correct to enforce both, where did the 24 yards come from?  5 for running into the punter and 15 for unsportsmanlike gets 20 yards.  Any idea where the extra 4 comes in?

These were the only two flags on the play. 

Offline prab

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Re: Double Enforcement
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 10:52:08 AM »
Saw an interesting thing this weekend,  not sure if it was the proper enforcement. I last officiated a game  5 years ago, so I'm not sure if this is something I forgot, or if the enforcement was wrong.

Team A punts, punter gets the kick away, foot comes down and touches the ground, but the punter kind of bounces into a rusher from B and hits the ground. Ref throws a flag at the rusher, indicating a running into the kicker.

The rusher then looks at the referee and holds his hands up like he did nothing.  May have also said something to the referee.  The ref then throws his bean bag in the air, indicating a second penalty. 

The crew enforced the roughing penalty as well as an unsportsmanlike penalty.  Total yardage they moved the ball from the previous spot was 24 yards.  So two issues:

1) Both fouls occurred during the play.  The referee did not signal a dead ball for the unsportsmanlike. I believe only one penalty should be enforced.  Am I missing something?

2) Assuming correct to enforce both, where did the 24 yards come from?  5 for running into the punter and 15 for unsportsmanlike gets 20 yards.  Any idea where the extra 4 comes in?

These were the only two flags on the play.

You describe running into the kicker which carries a 5 yard penalty, but go on to say that it was enforced as roughing the kicker which carries a 15 yard penalty.  Additionally, although the unsportsmanlike act took place during the play, it is enforced as a dead ball foul.  Also you don't mention where the ball was snapped from.  Now to make the math come out to 24 yards;

Previous spot B-33 yard line.  Roughing penalty takes it to B-18 yard line.  Unsportsmanlike penalty takes it half way to the goal line at the B-9 yard line.  15 + 9 = 24. 

If in fact it was a 5 yard running into the kicker penalty, I can't come up with a way for the two penalties to add up to 24 yards.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Double Enforcement
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 10:54:43 AM »
Welcome to the forum ,Roger, may you find it both entertaining and informative. The flag for unsportsmanlike , although occurring during a live ball, is treated as a dead ball foul. The rationale is that the foul itself had no baring on the play. The odd yardage gain may have occurred by the dead ball enforcement reduced by halving the distance...example... ball @ R's 30; roughing the kicker = R's 15 ; USC would now take it down to R's 7 1/2 = a 22 1/2 yard walk-off.

 aWaRd to Prab for typing quicker than me  tiphat:

Offline RogerRef

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Re: Double Enforcement
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 11:05:56 AM »
Thanks for the response.  I did not mean to say roughing, it was indeed running into the kicker.  At least that was the signal. The kick was from around A's 25 yrd line.  So I'm not sure where the 24 came in.  I may have missed something on the field.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Double Enforcement
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 12:14:56 PM »
One possibility is that the U accidently enforced the penalties starting at the front stake (on a 4th and 4?), instead of from the box?  We try to avoid those kinds of errors by always confirming with the linesman the previous spot and then we both march off the penalty together.  Also, could be that the previous spot got lost if the chain crew didn't follow instructions and stay in place until told to move so the crew then got stuck with trying to establish the previous spot.  If the chains weren't clipped finding that spot can be a bit of guess work.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline prab

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Re: Double Enforcement
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 12:36:34 PM »
  Also, could be that the previous spot got lost if the chain crew didn't follow instructions and stay in place until told to move so the crew then got stuck with trying to establish the previous spot. 

This never happens in our area because all of our chain crews have been doing it for 30 years!