Author Topic: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?  (Read 13817 times)

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Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« on: September 13, 2017, 04:05:13 AM »
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/8/26/16166728/texas-southern-safety-famu

Ruled a safety on the field,  was the call correct or should the ball be declared dead at the 4yd line under the momentum exception ?
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 06:38:25 AM »
I don't see anything close to momentum. Safety 
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Online NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 07:21:09 AM »
Pretty clearly a safety IMO.  He was not running at speed, secured the ball on the fly, and ended up in the EZ.  He stepped into the EZ.
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Offline cwag

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 08:18:41 AM »
I was told the supervisor wanted this to be a touchback.  As for me, I would say safety.

Offline getnbetter

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 10:11:46 AM »
Yes, the supervisor wanted a touchback on this play.  I agree that this is a safety, but when in Rome.....

Offline Morningrise

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 10:19:11 AM »
Touchback... wow, that's the least defensible of the three possible rulings if you ask me.

When a runner *drops* the ball on the B-4, do they want a touchdown?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 11:03:58 AM »
I am not sure how anyone could arrive at a Touchback on this.  Sure, if he gains contral at the 1/2 yard line we don't need to be splitting threads and we can go Touchback then, but this player is at the 3.  You either sell momentum or rule safety.  No way we can rule touchback.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 11:51:58 AM »
I can't get the video to play from the link given, but I can find the game elsewhere.  What period and time?

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Offline Birddog

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 12:06:32 PM »
In the momentum rule it states "original" momentum.  That makes it pretty clear it is a safety.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 12:49:30 PM »
I was told the supervisor wanted this to be a touchback.  As for me, I would say safety.
Sounds to me like a Supe with no backbone to tell a coach the official got it right.
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Offline Grant - AR

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 12:54:19 PM »
Rule 8-5-1-a Exception says:

It is not a safety if a player between his five-yard line and his goal line:
(a) ...recovers a kick; and
(b) his original momentum carries him into his own end zone; and
(c) this ball remains behind his goal line and is declared dead in his team's possession there.

What part of that is not met in this play?  It was a kickoff.  His original momentum carried him into the end zone after he gained possession.  The ball was declared dead there.  What am I missing?

Put it at the 4 yard line and play ball.  No cheap scores. 

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 01:00:35 PM »
Rule 8-5-1-a Exception says:

It is not a safety if a player between his five-yard line and his goal line:
(a) ...recovers a kick; and
(b) his original momentum carries him into his own end zone; and
(c) this ball remains behind his goal line and is declared dead in his team's possession there.

What part of that is not met in this play?  It was a kickoff.  His original momentum carried him into the end zone after he gained possession.  The ball was declared dead there.  What am I missing?

Put it at the 4 yard line and play ball.  No cheap scores.
I don't believe his original momentum carries him into the end zone. JMO. I believe he may have been thinking the kick was going OOB, and when he realized it wasn't...
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline Grant - AR

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 01:20:13 PM »
I don't believe his original momentum carries him into the end zone. JMO. I believe he may have been thinking the kick was going OOB, and when he realized it wasn't...

I guess we need a definition of "original momentum" then.  All of the approved rulings in the back of the book just reference momentum, not original momentum.  I've seen this play many times and I don't have any doubt that his momentum carried him into the end zone.  Could he have stopped if he wanted to?  Maybe, but I don't think we can judge that and award the kicking team 2 points in this situation.

Also, I haven't seen any with my own eyes, but I've heard that a few supervisors have put out memos with this play telling their officials to rule this as momentum. 

Offline Kalle

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 03:19:11 PM »
Although my supervisor thinks that this is a clear case of a momentum exception, I think this is a borderline case, and you can easily argue either a safety or a ME. Would be nice to hear the official CFO take on this.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 03:26:32 PM »
I don't have any issues with ruling ME.  I'm just trying to understand how you can stretch this to a touchback.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2017, 04:15:35 PM »
Although my supervisor thinks that this is a clear case of a momentum exception, I think this is a borderline case, and you can easily argue either a safety or a ME. Would be nice to hear the official CFO take on this.

The problem with the official CFO take on this is that it isn't always what the governing coordinator wants.  In a few instances, I have known coordinators to direct their staffs to do something contrary to what was issued by the National Coordinator.  Not saying this will/would be the case in this instance, but it is certainly the type of situation that the National Coordinator and/or Sec-Ed might feel compelled to declare as a ME or safety, but the governing coordinator might say to stretch this to a TB.   

In my experience, for a case like this this, which, by rule, is clearly - at the very least - a Momentum Exception, coordinators tend to want to go as easy on the defending team as possible.  Awarding a score is the last thing they want to see happen.  Invoking the ME is better than a safety, but a TB is even less painful, and not likely to evoke a negative response from the opposing team.  No cheap score.  Both teams just carry on playing football.  Set 'em up at the 20, and we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Not saying this is right - just reality.

Robert

Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 07:06:13 AM »
Although my supervisor thinks that this is a clear case of a momentum exception, I think this is a borderline case, and you can easily argue either a safety or a ME. Would be nice to hear the official CFO take on this.

From  Steve Shaw

This is a judgement call by the covering official.  I am copying Rule 8-5-1 with some highlighted areas:

SECTION 5. Safety

How Scored

ARTICLE 1. It is a safety when:

a. The ball becomes dead out of bounds behind a goal line, except from an

incomplete forward pass, or becomes dead in the possession of a player

on, above or behind his own goal line, or becomes dead by rule, and the

defending team is responsible for the ball being there (A.R. 6-3-1-IV;

A.R. 7-2-4-I; A.R. 8-5-1-I-II, IV and VI-X; A.R. 8-7-2-II; and A.R. 9-4-

1-VIII).

When in question, it is a touchback, not a safety.

Exception:

It is not a safety if a player between his five-yard line and his goal line:

(a) intercepts a pass or fumble; or recovers an opponent’s fumble or

backward pass; or catches or recovers a kick; and

(b) his original momentum carries him into his own end zone; and

(c) the ball remains behind his goal line and is declared dead in his team’s

possession there
. This includes a fumble that goes from the end zone

into the field of play and out of bounds (Rule 7-2-4-b-1).

If conditions (a)-(c) are satisfied above, the ball belongs to this player’s

team at the spot where he gained possession.

 

We can support the covering officials decision if he felt that it was not the players “original momentum” that carried him into the end zone.  That said, our officiating philosophies would dictate “when in question, it is a touchback, not a safety.”  My first reaction was get the beanbag down where the player gained possession, and rule  1st & 10 at the spot of recovery.  Some plays are not black and white.

Correction edited in
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 11:49:30 AM by Aussie-Zebra »
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Offline dvasques

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2017, 08:12:55 AM »
Wow
Really? You could rule that to be a TB if you're in doubt?!?!
In doubt about wheather that's a safety or TB but to have that doubt you'd have to ignore where the player caught the ball and the momentum exception rule

Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Re: Safety or Momentum rule exception ?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2017, 11:45:18 AM »
Wow
Really? You could rule that to be a TB if you're in doubt?!?!
In doubt about wheather that's a safety or TB but to have that doubt you'd have to ignore where the player caught the ball and the momentum exception rule

Steve corrected his mistake in a subsequent email. It's should be 1st & 10 @ B3 or 4.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 11:50:31 AM by Aussie-Zebra »
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