Author Topic: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????  (Read 1504 times)

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2557
  • FAN REACTION: +312/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« on: September 19, 2017, 12:58:51 PM »
UNDER LAST FRIDAY NIGHT'S LIGHTS......

3rd & 10 @ A's 3 when :

(1) A turns K and tries to quick-kick from own end zone;
(2) B/R blocks K's punt;
(3) kicker kicks bouncing ball in end zone again;
(4) the illegal kick goes OOB @ A's 7.

^flagYOU MAKE THE CALL ^flag 

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 513
  • FAN REACTION: +29/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 01:12:25 PM »
It was a kick after the first kick. The second kick didn't change that.

Options:

a) Flag for illegal kick by A -- foul occurred in the end zone, ABO puts enforcement spot there, resulting in a safety.

b) B declines the foul for the illegal kick. We now have a scrimmage kick that goes out of bounds. It is R's ball at the in bounds spot, 1st and 10 at K/A's 7.

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 513
  • FAN REACTION: +29/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 01:17:27 PM »
You have more fun if B causes A to fumble in the end zone, then A kicks the ball OOB at the 7.

Now if B declines the illegal kick foul, it's A's ball, 4th and 6 at the A7 -- and a rather confused B coach needing an explanation as to why that wasn't a punt and his team's ball.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2557
  • FAN REACTION: +312/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 01:27:55 PM »
 aWaRd aWaRd  Good catch, NC,  aWaRd aWaRd.

An illegal kick used to be treated as a fumble until 2014 when a soccer star turned D-back kicked an airborne pass. It was decided that such an act could be corrected by allowing the now illegal kick to maintain the same status as before. Illegally kicking the blocked punt still retains its kick status = OOB on 3rd down = R's ball.

I just said : "The foul results in a safety"

I should have said : "The foul results in a safety OR you can take the ball at their seven."

I should have taken the captain to within the hearing distance of his coach to explain his option as they may have wanted the field position of 1st & goal.

I didn't do either.....They seemed happy....They ended up winning 40-22....they could have won 45-22.....or.....38-22....

A lesson learned...you're never too old to learn a lesson... :o ::) ??? 8]   

Offline J12

  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-4
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 09:47:49 PM »
Just to be clear, the foul on A for the 2nd "kick" is because he kicked a loose ball.  A could have taken possession of the loose ball and (assuming he took possession behind the line of scrimmage) then LEGALLY kicked it again.  Correct?

Offline jmckb99

  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-0
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 10:14:57 PM »
Yes. If he would have picked it up then kicked it again, it would have been a legal kick.

Offline KWH

  • *
  • Posts: 313
  • FAN REACTION: +71/-39
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 01:09:27 AM »
So....  :sTiR:   :puke:
What would you have if K1 had picked up the blocked punt in K's end zone and advanced it to the K-7 yard line where he is downed???    cRaZy   :!#   hEaDbAnG   

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 2557
  • FAN REACTION: +312/-27
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 07:10:36 AM »
So....  :sTiR:   :puke:
What would you have if K1 had picked up the blocked punt in K's end zone and advanced it to the K-7 yard line where he is downed???    cRaZy   :!#   hEaDbAnG   

It would have become 4th & 6, but we would have lost the enjoyment of this discussion.

 :puke: :puke: :puke: tR:oLl tR:oLl sNiCkErS nAnA :!# >:D z^ eAt& ^good ^TD ^no

Offline J12

  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-4
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 08:27:22 PM »
Does a ball on the ground absolutely HAVE to be held in order to be legally kicked?  Suppose on this "double kick" play, the kicker had instead grabbed the loose ball?  Suppose he then placed it on the ground, took a step a back and then kicked it?  Legal? Similarly, could a "holder" catch the snap, rise from one knee, place the ball on the ground and abandon it while the kicker ran up and kicked it?

Offline Rulesman

  • The Keeper of the Keys
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 3839
  • FAN REACTION: +323/-243
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 09:42:39 PM »
The short answers: yes, no, no.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline The Roamin' Umpire

  • *
  • Posts: 347
  • FAN REACTION: +30/-16
Re: Can an illegal kick still be a kick ????
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 02:47:52 PM »
Does a ball on the ground absolutely HAVE to be held in order to be legally kicked?  Suppose on this "double kick" play, the kicker had instead grabbed the loose ball?  Suppose he then placed it on the ground, took a step a back and then kicked it?  Legal? Similarly, could a "holder" catch the snap, rise from one knee, place the ball on the ground and abandon it while the kicker ran up and kicked it?

The only legal kicks in NFHS are punts, place kicks, and drop kicks. Each of these is well-defined; none of them include kicking a loose ball while it is on the ground.