SK Enforcement

[JDM]

Play from OSU vs. TCU.

4/4 from B-41. Team A punts. B81 holds during the kick at the B-20. A8 illegally touches the kick at the B-3. B33 muffs the kick at the B-4. Team A recovers at the B-6.

Penalty was accepted.

Ruling?

[dvasques]

A 1/10 @ B-31 if A accepts the penalty (10-2-2-d-3-a)
or
B 1/10 @ B-3 if A declines

[TXMike]

The play   https://youtu.be/gSMrg8-dMy8

[clearwall]

I accidentally messed this up myself week one. My SJ threw a H and I made the mistake of hearing him say "at the LOS" so we enforced previous spot. I thought he meant it was at the snap. What he had was holding of the gunner running downfield and we should have enforced PSK. But yeah, I wont do that again. Looks like the same kind of confusion happened here. Im thinking they thought that since TCU ended up possessing the ball that Team B will not next put the ball in play so PSK doesnt apply. Therefore, you can only enforce prev. spot. But what they got wrong was that the Illegal Touching came before Team B touched it so the recovery is an ILLEGAL recovery and Team B will choose the Illegal Touch spot, so they WILL next put the ball in play. You can then enforce PSK. I feel their pain...

[LJ Silver]

Team B does not get the choice, because they committed the foul. Team A (TCU) will not decline the foul by Team B (OSU), because that would give Team B the ball at the illegal touch spot. Acceptance of a penalty cancels the illegal touching privilege. Since Team B will not next put the ball in play, PSK does not apply. The only option is to enforce the foul at the previous spot, which is what they did.

Crew got this one right....

[clearwall]

So you're saying anytime Team B doesnt catch the ball on a punt, the penalty is enforced prev spot? I think I missed something somewhere if that's true

[ChicagoZebra]

So you're saying anytime Team B doesnt catch the ball on a punt, the penalty is enforced prev spot? I think I missed something somewhere if that's true

PSK requires B to put the ball next in play. Team A legally recovered the ball in this case at the end of the play (illegal touch by A -> muff by B -> legal recovery by A).

Because PSK does not apply here, we go previous spot for enforcement for a foul during a scrimmage kick.

[clearwall]

I still don't see anywhere where you can decline illegal touching. It's not a penalty, so how is it able to be declined? The illegal touch makes B's muff no-risk for him regardless of what happens. You can always go back to the IT spot.

I know that on a FREE KICK you can wipe out IT with an accepted penalty, but I dont see how that also applies to a SCR kick

[ChicagoZebra]

I still don't see anywhere where you can decline illegal touching. It's not a penalty, so how is it able to be declined? The illegal touch makes B's muff no-risk for him regardless of what happens. You can always go back to the IT spot.

The receiving team has the option to take the result of the play or take the ball at the spot of the illegal touching. Illegal touching is a "privilege" (6-3-2-a). Also refer to many A.R.s which support this.

However, the receiving team fouled on this play. The acceptance of any foul means there is no privilege to take the ball at the illegal touching spot (6-3-2-b). Once we first enforce the foul, there are no further options to consider.

[clearwall]

Thank you, that was what I needed. I see the AR now

[ChicagoZebra]

I was thinking about this play over night, and I think it is actually a very unique situation that should be shared, a true "test book" question in real life. I am not sure many (any?) test book questions and A.R.s even deal with a legal recovery by A after an illegal touch by A. Perhaps it is something that should be added as an A.R. to clarify this is a possible sequence.

[ElvisLives]

Certainly concur it is unique.  I have seen illegal touch by A, followed by muff by B, followed by "legal" recovery by A, but NOT with a foul involved.  So, yeah - clarification via AR would be helpful.

Robert

[clearwall]

I was thinking about this play over night, and I think it is actually a very unique situation that should be shared, a true "test book" question in real life. I am not sure many (any?) test book questions and A.R.s even deal with a legal recovery by A after an illegal touch by A. Perhaps it is something that should be added as an A.R. to clarify this is a possible sequence.

Yeah, and that's where I really got confused because normally acceptance of a foul is usually because of a foul by A and it is enforced from the DB spot either after illegal recovery or the punt return. So you just add it on to that spot and go. This one was weird where you wipe out the first IT and you have no other enforcement spot except prev spot.

[bossman72]

The result of the play is a legal recovery of the kick by Team A.  So, Team A will next put the ball in play.

If Team A declines the OH on Team B, then Team B will accept the ITK violation at the B3 yard line and take it there 1/10.

Therefore, Team A can have the OH foul enforced from the previous spot, which cancels the ITK.  This is not PSK since Team A ended up with the ball at the end of the down.

Since the 10 yards gave them a first down, that's the obvious choice.

If the 10 yards did not give them a first down, they may decline the OH and take the ITK spot at the B3, so situations may be different.

[wlemonnier]

Bossman72 summed it up perfectly.  Strategy of the situation will dictate what the coach decides for accepting/declining the penalty... key thing for us is giving accurate option information to the coach to make his decision.

[blindtxzebra]

I was thinking about this play over night, and I think it is actually a very unique situation that should be shared, a true "test book" question in real life. I am not sure many (any?) test book questions and A.R.s even deal with a legal recovery by A after an illegal touch by A. Perhaps it is something that should be added as an A.R. to clarify this is a possible sequence.

A.R. 6-3-11-III
Basically the same scenario as what happened in the game.

[ChicagoZebra]

A.R. 6-3-11-III
Basically the same scenario as what happened in the game.

Good find... didn't think to look in that section.