Author Topic: Clock on RFP or Snap?  (Read 1623 times)

Offline MClays99

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Clock on RFP or Snap?
« on: September 25, 2017, 12:48:31 PM »
Saw this one the other day, in Ohio.
2:30 to go in 4th Q, team A is up 16+ points, clock is running.  3rd and 12, Running play by A with  ^flag for holding, runner tackled after gaining 20+ yards.  Team B accepts penalty as otherwise it would result in 1st & 10, looks like R was talking to B's coach about the options.  Anyway, penalty accepted, RFP sounded, clock didn't start until snap.  A's coach did not look happy to see that the clock was not running, afterall, it was a running play ending in bounds, clock was running prior to  ^flag, and not inside 2:00 minutes.  For non-Ohio guys, we have the rule this year that the offended team when clock is 1:59 or less in 2nd Q or end of 4th Q can decide whether to run the clock or have it start on the RFP.

So, question is:  Should the clock start on the RFP or the snap?  Seems like the snap, as otherwise the offending team is receiving a benefit for doing something wrong...

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 01:23:50 PM »
Clock should start on the RFP.

In the past, perhaps you could have argument that the clock should start on the snap with 3-4-6 (clock god rule). However, with the 3-4-7 now plainly stating that this can only happen in the last 2 minutes of either half, you I think RFP is the only correct option.

Offline scrounge

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 02:05:51 PM »
3-4-7 hasn't eliminated the conserve/consume provisions, it's only added and codified a portion of it as applied to the last 2 minutes.

Here in Ohio, we generally will use the last 4 minutes as the reasonable window for conserve/consume. What does 16+ mean, anyway? Was it 16? That seems reasonably close to use conserve/consume. If it was 35? Let it go...but that's up to the judgment of that particular R on that particular day.

Offline MClays99

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 02:14:15 PM »
If memory serves, the spread was more than sixteen points, but not much more.  I put 16+ points because I knew that it would take more than two TD's with two point conversions.

Offline dch

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 03:14:01 PM »
agree with Scrounge.  3-4-6 has not been eliminated or changed.  Certainly the clock could be started or stopped outside of the 2 minute mark.  3-4-7 does not give the authority to wind -- it only allows the option to have the clock wait til the snap.
These timing situations can be critical in close games and should be thought thru at home before you are faced with it in a game.  It is better to have considered what your action should be beforehand instead of getting hit with a tough situation at a chaotic time of the game.
I've seen 3-4-6 applied near the end of the 1st or 3rd period - not just half time or the end of the game.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2017, 06:41:51 AM »
Why would you set aside he normal timing (start on RFP) on this play?  I'd have a really hard time believing that A intentionally fouled to consume time, especially since they would have gotten a new series as a result of the play.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2017, 07:27:52 AM »
IMHO, 3-4-6 reads : "When a team ATTEMPTS to conserve or consume time illegally....."

IMHO, "attempts" indicates a intentional act. I've given the opponents the benefit of the doubt before on fouls such as false starts, encroachments, etc. ; but would be hard pressed to feel that a holding foul was done in an attempt to consume time. Big ole' Bubbas aren't usually that smart :). If it occurred in the last two minutes our new rule would apply.

Offline MClays99

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2017, 09:08:21 AM »
Thanks to all for the responses.  This was a game that I watched, and I know that people are using the term "you" as a generalization, as I was not on this game.  The only response I offered to someone when they asked me was "If you thought the offense did this on purpose, then you can start on the snap, otherwise it would be the RFP."  Tough to say what I would do if presented with this situation, as it sounds cut and dried, but without being there and knowing how everything was going for the first 45+ minutes of the game and the players, it is very similar to looking at a picture of a play and asking if it was block in the back or similar!

Keep your flags dry this week!

Offline animalspooker

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Re: Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 10:14:42 AM »
Personally, I'm not starting the clock in this situation.  I look at it the same way I would if A had let the 25 second clock run down to 2 seconds and then jumped off sides.  I'm not going to give them another 25 seconds to burn off the clock just because they 'accidentally' caused a penalty.   And that goes both ways, if B is losing and they jump off sides in that situation, I would start the clock at ready for play.  Your mistake....your suffering the consequences.  Just my $0.02!  The 2 minute mark is in effect here in Missouri too, but if I feel someone can gain an advantage one way or another, I'm going to penalize the offending team...even at 5 or 6 minutes.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Clock on RFP or Snap?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 10:57:25 AM »
Personally, I'm not starting the clock in this situation.  I look at it the same way I would if A had let the 25 second clock run down to 2 seconds and then jumped off sides.  I'm not going to give them another 25 seconds to burn off the clock just because they 'accidentally' caused a penalty.   And that goes both ways, if B is losing and they jump off sides in that situation, I would start the clock at ready for play.  Your mistake....your suffering the consequences.  Just my $0.02!  The 2 minute mark is in effect here in Missouri too, but if I feel someone can gain an advantage one way or another, I'm going to penalize the offending team...even at 5 or 6 minutes.
I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure 25 seconds is worth 5yds at 5 or 6 minutes. IOW, I find it difficult that either team would spend 5yds to get another 25 seconds with that much time left.


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